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Old 25-01-2011, 21:22   #16
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Originally Posted by At sea View Post
I know this isn't a marriage counselling site but from what you've posted, my response would be: yikes! danger, danger!

For a marriage to work, both parties have to feel free within it. You can't exercise power over one another. If the handcuffs are snapped on, then you'll always be wanting to break out. It's not boating and whether you can get her to like it that's the issue; because if it's not that, it'll be something else. Respect for what the other party wants to do, and the granting of space to do it, is fundamental. I'd query whether you have that at the moment.
You are somewhat right, now is the time to question it. Speaking from a woman who was married for 26 years to a man that didn't want to go boating, didn't like the water, didn't want to talk about it. It wasn't that clear in the beginning because I had not discovered boating yet. I didn't become a sailor until later. I was always off by myself. I thought, wow I have the perfect marriage, he lets me do what I want. One day it occured to me that I really wasn't sharing life and in fact I was living alone. If I was living alone, why continue to get **** for never being home, so I left. Caution, do you really want to spend the rest of your life with someone who doesn't think boats that cost money are worth it? (A hole in the water you throw money into) I also was good at control, trying to make things work for me and make him comfortable so I could get my needs met. It is a tough way to go. I never seen it as control at the time, I was so nice about it and he didn't seem to mind unless I was gone for a long time. I was told by someone that wanted to date, we will need to stay on land as I don't do well on the water. I guess you don't have to ask how many dates I went on.

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Old 25-01-2011, 21:33   #17
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Old 25-01-2011, 22:26   #18
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My suggestion is that you "Sea Trial" the future bride on a sailboat. You will find out if she likes what you like or not, and if she doesn't like what you like then the relationship will probably suck. With all the available women in the world that would love to sail and own a boat, why marry a woman that doesn't.
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Old 25-01-2011, 22:35   #19
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Originally Posted by At sea View Post
I know this isn't a marriage counselling site but from what you've posted, my response would be: yikes! danger, danger!

For a marriage to work, both parties have to feel free within it. You can't exercise power over one another. If the handcuffs are snapped on, then you'll always be wanting to break out. It's not boating and whether you can get her to like it that's the issue; because if it's not that, it'll be something else. Respect for what the other party wants to do, and the granting of space to do it, is fundamental. I'd query whether you have that at the moment.
I went down this road, ...and failed. I married an asian wife, before wedding I insisted i woulod continue boating, she said OK, She posted the same objections, it cost too much, it is an unneccessary expense, only low class people have boats i.e. boat people, fishermen. It is illegal in my country. I told her that I would only marry her on the condition that I be allowed to keep the boat, for the next fourteen years, every day constant pressure to sell it. Overspending on the budget then blaming the shortfall on the "unecessary boat expenses". I'm being irresponsible after a 60 hour workweek to spend half a day fishing. Its too dangerous to bring children from birth to teenage years to boat. After wedding she swore she would never step foot on it.

THAILAND DOES NOT have travel restrictions, it is her family hoping to pressure you into tying the knot. If this doesn't dissuade you, then tell her you'll marry her after the pacific crossing. Provision the boat, set the engagement for when the voyage is complete, then go. Chances are you'll be going by your self, good luck.
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Old 25-01-2011, 23:24   #20
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When I decided to buy a boat, my wife was completely disinterested. Being from a landlocked country her experience with the ocean or boats was nil. (Yeah, mixed cultural marriage too)

Two years later she is 100% on-board and ready to get to cruising. What did I do? Honestly, I don't know, but here are some things that obviously helped:

1. Made it clear at the onset this was important to me. She was welcome and wanted as a sailing partner but it was not required. Regardless, I was buying the boat and pursuing my dream - with or without her. I wasn't mean, but firm.
2. I introduced her to sailing slowly, in calm conditions. I took extra pains to make it fun and as romantic as an old fart like me could. Kept the healing modest and always made sure she was comfortable and felt safe.
3. Gently encouraged her "ownership" in the boat - perhaps the greatest contribution. Deal was she got to make final decisions about the inside (galley, cushions, curtains, etc), while I'd take care of the outside. Yet I consulted her about "my" end - discussing every purchase or upgrade.
4. Put her in the company of sailing couples and a good social environment. This too was important to her transformation, especially making friends with other sailing women.
5. Encouraged but never pushed her to take the helm and learn. As she learned to sail I never got upset when she made a mistake.
6. Subscribed to the glossy magazines that make sailing look romantic and adventurous (and generally leaving out the negative realities). By the time she learned it was not always like the glossy magazines portrayed it was too late - she was hooked.

Whatever you do, good luck.
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Old 25-01-2011, 23:41   #21
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Not the deep end method...

I ran your question past Mrs. Boracay. Quite irrationally she says that's your intended is "too expensive". There were also suggestions of second cousins who all "like sailing" but I suspect that boat has sailed.

It's probable that she's expecting to get a job, work hard and to set herself up financially. Very possible if she's from the poor middle class.

I had a similar problem with my beloved. Her culture is replete with evil sea spirits so initially just getting her on a boat was a bit of a struggle.

My solution was to buy a project boat, that was in the water, but took every bit of my spare time. Now she seems to really enjoy being on the boat. Coastal cruising is the next big step.

Does your fiance like picnics? Thats really Cruising Relationships 101. From there you can progress it slowly. It will really help if she knows how to swim (Australian Swim schools teach correct swim stroke, swimming is expected to follow).

I still pay close attention to weather reports. Nothing over 20 kts.

I'd recon you might heve your work cut out in Washington. That's cold, wet and windy 364 days of the year, right? Maybe some charters in the Caribbean after being frozen for a few months may work.

There could be quite a discrepancy between how you and your intended see the future developing. My mother gave my wife the thumbs up and I'd strongly recomend discussing this with yours (or a close senior female relative), and introducing your fiance to her as soon as possible (if you havn't already done so).
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Old 26-01-2011, 00:30   #22
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Unless you are "struggling" with your finances, it does seem strange that she would be telling you that it is too expensive. I hope there is no motive.

Many who marry are of the belief that what they had before the marriage is still theirs to play with - specifically around toys.

I sold my aircraft because my other half doesn't enjoy flying and I'm trying to get her involved in sailing instead (the reality is that it's probably a lot safer) to the point of world travels in a catamaran. That being said she fully understands that flying is my thing, that I owned the aircraft before we got together and that she doesn't have the moral right (or the want) to try and stop me from doing it.

I don't want to use the words pussy-whipped.... but.....
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Old 26-01-2011, 01:12   #23
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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"Also, at least according to her, it's illegal for a Taiwanese to own a boat for personal use."
Apparently it's illegal to smoke pot in the UK again, but there's nothing wrong with doing so in Holland! And it's illegal to drink alcohol in Kuwait, but apparently that's OK in UK. Sadly, we can't pick and choose the laws of a country, but we can pick and choose the country where we reside!

Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Sounds like she's wanting to CHANGE you not ACCEPT you. Including your odd American extravagant standards, like owning a boat.
Hear, hear. Are you really considering changing your lifestyle to increase the kitty in your bank account to accommodate a new wife? Keep the boat, mate! Or, even better, register it in a good friend's name, so it won't be part of the settlement...

A friend of mine told me the other day that he's taking the first step towards a divorce, and getting married. I'll tell you the same thing I told him - best of luck, and may you love each other dearly and grow together in the same direction. All the best, and I hope she does start to love the sailing.

Remember - calm days only, romantic picnics, and get her swimming lessons.
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Old 26-01-2011, 01:13   #24
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Lots of good advice here. Who would have thought that CF would be a prime source of prospective marriage counseling?

My own suggestion is that you need to be very careful with this. You could be in for an unhappy life if you screw this up.

Your problem is not just the question of whether or not she will want to participate in your sport. It is worse than that -- it is whether you will be able to have a common policy, which satisfies both of you, on how to spend money. Frugality is a great quality -- much better than its opposite -- but will you find yourself in a situation where you can't spend $50 on anything not entirely serious without horrifying your wife and getting yourself into trouble? I seem to remember that the most common fatal problem between husband and wife is disagreements about how to spend money -- by "fatal" I mean leading to divorce.

Maybe you wouldn't mind giving up the boat and living her way -- that is certainly one option, and you will have the benefit of lifelong financial security. If it's in your bones, then maybe that's something which attracted you to her in the first place. If not, however, then you need to try to figure out whether there is enough flexibility and understanding on both sides to come up with some kind of common philosophy about spending money and some method of agreeing budgets and expenses. As someone very wisely pointed out -- just getting a formal agreement is not enough -- her heart has to be in it, otherwise you may be in for a lifetime of resentment.

As to sailing as sailing, if you get that far -- I can't imagine going into a marriage where one person loves sailing and wants to spend most of his or her free time doing it, and the other doesn't enjoy it. What an obstacle to put up for yourself before you even start. You need to be prepared to either give it up without resentment, or get her interested in it and make her your partner in it in the ways others here have suggested. This will take some time, so I would suggest that you not rush into tying the knot. You will be sorry if you do.

With regard to ALL of this: any solutions start with frank, open and friendly talks about it. Have you discussed your concerns with her? If you marry her, you will have to spend the rest of your life talking about stuff, so this would be a great time to start.
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Old 26-01-2011, 02:57   #25
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This thread should be required reading for anyone considering an asian wife under similar circumstances. I have 18 years of experience and one horrific divorce to back up that claim.

My advice: Run. If you marry, you will never fully enjoy your boat again until the day you divorce her. And, during that last miserable moment of emotional & financial torture, she'll fight harder than ever to take the boat away from you!

Please listen carefully to the following:

1. Chances are, her marriage-related green card is of more importance to her than any goals you set for your relationship.

2. Chances are, you will fail to change what are deeply ingrained cultural beliefs about boat ownership and living aboard. If she complains about it now, she'll still complain about it 18 years from now.

3. Whatever situations you two go through together, she will always insist that she did everything right and you (and your boat) are to blame. This will ultimately drive you into divorce court, since you will understand at that point that she is only interested in financial gain and not concerned one bit with working on making the relationship work.

I'm afraid you will have to choose between her and the boat, the advice suggesting caution and danger is good, trust me that kind of insight does not come cheap - the price you pay is very, very high.

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Old 26-01-2011, 09:05   #26

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"Apparently it's illegal to smoke pot in the UK again, but there's nothing wrong with doing so in Holland!" I understand there was a big ruckus there this year about tourists coming for dope, so now only citizens are allowed to smoke or buy in the cafes. No doubt a left-handed ploy to induce emigration to Holland.<G>

But I think AtSea has it wrong wrt "You can't exercise power over one another. " Bind your spouse's feet (quaint old Chinese custom, a billion people for a couple of centuries can't be all wrong now can they? And Taiwan is after all of the Chinese heritage.) or forbid them from leaving the household, and there you've got it.

All kinds of happy marriages out there, our Western delusions of "freedom" and "equality" are seen as terribly odd and abhorrent in some places. (Who wouldn't want the bridal party to dress up as Flying Elvises ?! <G>)
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Old 26-01-2011, 12:36   #27
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She's from Taiwan and has an immigrant visa to Australia (where she wants to live). The only reason she's moving here is that I can't move for a bit over 2 years because I took the new homebuyer tax credit. I also have a practice here that while nothing amazing provides enough for a relatively comfortable life and will get better as time goes on. She would have absolutely no interest in living in America if I weren't here.

I am actually a divorce attorney so I think about things a bit differently. My boat, car, and house are outside the divorce process and there's not much else to my name besides a fairly large savings account. Most of that was saved for visa fees, honeymoon, and other expenses when she gets over here.

Financially I'm fine on my own but will have to support her for at least a while. That will push my finances to the limit for a few months until I get out of a few bad advertising contracts I made last year. August or so of this year finances will start to look better and better.

She doesn't think boats are only for poor people. She thinks they are extravagant and I'm living outside of my means. She thinks the boat is mine and from before marriage so whatever money I get from it is my own, but is absolutely against moorage costs after we get married. She sees it as throwing money away.

I originally took a firm stance on the issue and her being stubborn I think it did more harm than good. I think I would have been better off showing her fancy pictures of some of the Islands out here and fondly reminiscing about different places I've visited. She thinks the idea of visiting some small islands is kind of cool and I should have focused on that. We do have some good weather now and then...the problem is probably 7 months out of the year it would be too cold for her and I'd still be paying moorage. If you go on a lot of trips, then moorage doesn't seem bad (could even seem cheap for a family) compared to other potential vacations. If you're only going out a few weekends a year moorage is expensive compared to other potential vacations. Let's say I pay a year's moorage and insurance and use the boat for 5 weekends. For the same money we could go on a 2-week trip to SE Asia, go on a Caribbean cruise, go to Hawaii for two weeks, etc. Even I can't really see paying moorage unless both people are on board and you're using the boat a significant period of time.

She has no problem with me going out on the boat. No problem taking the kids out if we have them. Just no moorage. If I get a boat with no moorage she'd probably at least try it out, but I think it would have to be a slow introduction process. And I don't think she'd want to do anything longer than a night out on a trailerable sailboat (small inside, small berths, porta potty, no shower...not so appealing).

Someone offered me a trade for a trailerable sailboat. I'd lose a grand or so on the trade but would save at least $500-600 on tax and moorage costs. Tempting.
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Old 26-01-2011, 13:01   #28
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Originally Posted by jm21 View Post
She doesn't think boats are only for poor people. She thinks they are extravagant and sees it as throwing money away.
From my experience most women make the adjustment from poor to extravagance quite easily, it's the other way round that presents a problem.

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Old 26-01-2011, 13:15   #29
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Originally Posted by Pete7
I can't stand the cutlery she chose but that's a small price to pay for being able to go sailing together.

I can picture this wonderful image of you heaving on the genoa sheets mid tack, while trying to distract yourself from the sound of crashing cutlery from below by grinding your teeth!
"By day the hot sun fermented us; and we were dizzied by the beating wind. At night we were stained by dew, and shamed into pettiness by the innumerable silences of stars."
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Old 26-01-2011, 16:35   #30
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To jm21, a suggestion. First, it assumes you are currently renting a slip (marina berth), right? And it's the rental that she sees as money tossed away?

So, since you have some savings, why not purchase a slip? Over here anyway they usually provide good capital gain over time. Further, it would be added to the list of the items that you owned before marriage (untouchable if it comes to that).

Purchasing a slip would also allow you to present it as a capital investment - like purchasing a rental apartment etc. That ought to appeal to the stringent financial manager in her.

And since she wanted to forgo the marriage ceremony etc to save a quid, you could tell her that the savings went into this wise capital investment...or maybe that'd be a bit like dancing on the edge of a cliff

Anyway, it seems that you're still prepared to give it a go (good advice be damned ), and so I wish you the best of luck.

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