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Old 24-11-2015, 05:19   #136
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Re: What are essential foods to bring?

Just doing some thinking about cooling essential food stuff and keeping them cool. Now I have never lived with an ice type cooler/ice chest (other than a leisure insulated plastic box you put packs from the freezer in).

Just about every boat I am looking at, has an ice chest.

So would the cheapest and most practical option, be to buy a small ice maker run off an inverter (as well as shore power when available, of course), and use the provided ice chest as intended? I suppose given the compressor in them, I may not be able to use a cheap modified sine wave inverter, and would have to get a pure sine wave one.

But they do seem to be quite reasonable on the amps used, and once everything is at a fairly stable temperature, I may only have to fire up the ice maker for a couple of hours a day to keep things good, so a couple of reasonable solar panels should be able to keep on top of things without any drama.

Of course this would also provide a bit of luxury with having ice for drinks made on demand . . . . . . Plus, I could have a cheap insulated cool chest to cool the tinnies down, and not take up food cooler space.

I could also recycle the water through a filter jug, so it is dedicated to ice making, which would save making some demand from the water storage.

Sound like a plan?
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Old 24-11-2015, 22:39   #137
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Re: What are essential foods to bring?

In a word...no. Better to have just a dedicated freezer without an icebox.
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Old 24-11-2015, 23:56   #138
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Re: What are essential foods to bring?

Not correct for many people. There are dozens of way to skin the proverbial cat.
Anyway, what is a dedicated freezer without an icebox? Do you mean a 12v freezer as opposed to a cooler box into which you place ice?

A 12v portable fridge freezer can be pretty efficient. We keep a 95 litre double door National Luna aboard which provides supplementary space. The two compartments run independently of each other as a fridge/fridge, fridge/freezer or as a freezer/freezer. Its very versatile and pretty economical to run. The beauty is that it provides extra capacity for longer trips (and then is disconnected) and also be used in a vehicle for road trips.
It takes up a lot of space but it is one of our must haves with a big family.


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In a word...no. Better to have just a dedicated freezer without an icebox.
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Old 25-11-2015, 03:35   #139
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Re: What are essential foods to bring?

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Originally Posted by Kestle View Post
In a word...no. Better to have just a dedicated freezer without an icebox.
In many ways I agree with you Kestle, but given the size of boat I am looking at (something like a Cape Dory 28ft), space, flexibility, versatility, as well as economy, are important. It also isn't necessarily a bad idea to take advantage of already included features (such as an ice box)?

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There are dozens of way to skin the proverbial cat. . . . . . . .
Given it would probably be a very good idea for me to pick up a 110v inverter while I am in North America (the boat I get will likely be geared up for 110v while on shore power, so I may as well continue with it until I get back, and I can then put my 230v systems in alongside the existing). Inverters also don't take up much space (well, my domestic 8kw/24kw pure sine wave 230v is a pretty massive and heavy beastie . . . it's transformers sure put the 'heavy' into heavy duty, but I won't be picking up anything like that).

I did a search on Amazon (USA version) for ice makers after looking at compressor based refrigerators and freezers.

So have a look at this:

Amazon.com: Knox Portable Compact Ice Maker with LCD Display, Silver: Kitchen & Dining

3 year warranty available (it should last longer than 3 years normally, but a marine environment won't help it last), size 16 x 13.5 x 14.5 inches, and will probably make over 25lbs of ice a day (about 1lb of ice an hour). It makes no sense for me to buy the warranty (I should still be in North America during the supplied period it is likely to break down - within 3 months of purchase).

Now a lot of the ice makers, even much more expensive ones, don't offer more than the standard 12 month warranty (they probably die after 14 months use).

It's a size easy to stow away, and as I want to improve the diesel engine (the vast majority get way too much of the wrong type of use, which doesn't do them any good) as I head for home, so will likely be running it for about 4 hours a day under load while travelling, and do about 3 oil and filter changes before I head off across the Pond (it'll be a small diesel engine with a 35 amp alternator, so maybe a gallon and a half per day while doing this routine, to treat it as if it is running in again). So there will be plenty of power available to make ice with.
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Old 25-11-2015, 04:57   #140
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Re: What are essential foods to bring?

I hear what you are saying, but.......
You shall be creating a lot of work for yourself. Several considerations - water for the ice. Where shall it come from? You'll unlikely be able to recycle it. Value of the ice machine second hand shall probably be very low. Convenience factors? Cleaning out the ice box? Melted water? Ruined food potentially?
A decent 12v fridge freezer retains a substantial used value which should always be a consideration. Secondly, you can control power consumption and temperature and adjust accordingly. I would prefer to suggest a solar panel and a fridge freezer as you have more options.
Have a look for used versions; Engel, National Luna, Waeco etc.
Best wishes.


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Originally Posted by Ribbit View Post
In many ways I agree with you Kestle, but given the size of boat I am looking at (something like a Cape Dory 28ft), space, flexibility, versatility, as well as economy, are important. It also isn't necessarily a bad idea to take advantage of already included features (such as an ice box)?



Given it would probably be a very good idea for me to pick up a 110v inverter while I am in North America (the boat I get will likely be geared up for 110v while on shore power, so I may as well continue with it until I get back, and I can then put my 230v systems in alongside the existing). Inverters also don't take up much space (well, my domestic 8kw/24kw pure sine wave 230v is a pretty massive and heavy beastie . . . it's transformers sure put the 'heavy' into heavy duty, but I won't be picking up anything like that).

I did a search on Amazon (USA version) for ice makers after looking at compressor based refrigerators and freezers.

So have a look at this:

Amazon.com: Knox Portable Compact Ice Maker with LCD Display, Silver: Kitchen & Dining

3 year warranty available (it should last longer than 3 years normally, but a marine environment won't help it last), size 16 x 13.5 x 14.5 inches, and will probably make over 25lbs of ice a day (about 1lb of ice an hour). It makes no sense for me to buy the warranty (I should still be in North America during the supplied period it is likely to break down - within 3 months of purchase).

Now a lot of the ice makers, even much more expensive ones, don't offer more than the standard 12 month warranty (they probably die after 14 months use).

It's a size easy to stow away, and as I want to improve the diesel engine (the vast majority get way too much of the wrong type of use, which doesn't do them any good) as I head for home, so will likely be running it for about 4 hours a day under load while travelling, and do about 3 oil and filter changes before I head off across the Pond (it'll be a small diesel engine with a 35 amp alternator, so maybe a gallon and a half per day while doing this routine, to treat it as if it is running in again). So there will be plenty of power available to make ice with.
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Old 25-11-2015, 07:25   #141
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Re: What are essential foods to bring?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribbit View Post
Just doing some thinking about cooling essential food stuff and keeping them cool. Now I have never lived with an ice type cooler/ice chest (other than a leisure insulated plastic box you put packs from the freezer in).

Just about every boat I am looking at, has an ice chest.
Refrigeration is a big hurdle, and a big luxury. As soon as you have refrigeration, you are committing yourself to a daily power expenditure. If you have a big boat with lots of batteries and solar/wind generation, no problem. But on a small boat, your life will soon revolve around your refrigeration unit.

An ice box is actually a pretty good device. A well insulated icebox will stay cold for days, if not a full week with no electricity. I have always found ICE to be pretty cheap, and available at every marina.

Double insulating the factory installed icebox is a must, especially the lid.

Going entirely without refrigeration is also not a bad thing. That ice cold drink will taste so much better when you get ashore. There are plenty of no-fridge food options. Eating on a boat doesn't have to replicate eating at home with a big fridge in the kitchen.
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Old 25-11-2015, 16:35   #142
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Re: What are essential foods to bring?

I'll probably have time to check out what's available secondhand in the compressor driven 12v fridge/freezer market, I must admit. But I do now have what I think is a workable 'Plan B'.

Bubblewrap stuck on with double sided tape, onto a layer of aluminium foil (also stuck on with double sided tape), works good as insulation, and it's dirt cheap, and there's the thin film of closed cell foam used in packaging that works really well with it too. I was thinking of putting the ice cubes into something like Tupperware containers (half filling them so meltwater is less likely to leak everywhere), and rotating them out, then pouring the melted water through a filter jug (should help prevent bad flavours/smells building up) before putting it back in the ice maker. A microfiber towel is excellent for mopping up too.

I will try and get a reasonable 1.5kw/3kw 110v inverter anyway, as it will definitely run a George Foreman Grill (which also doesn't take up much room, and cooks really fast - they are around 1,100 watts I believe, with a fast warm up). I'd far rather run one of those than a pulpit BBQ, to be honest.

Home made Panini (made with bread rolls I'll have to practice baking in a Coleman Camp Oven) is 'up there' as an essential food for me (and they get ruined on a BBQ).

I bet thin fillets of fresh fish will cook nice and fast on a GF Grill too.

Heck with this model, I can even do pizza (and flat bread)! *laughs*

http://www.walmart.com/ip/George-For...kbook/37228883

I don't know why hamburking, but I had the impression from somewhere that ice was quite expensive to buy?

PS. Something else that would work really well for 'bagging' ice cubes with to put in the ice box, would be those cheap collapsible water carriers with a spout (about a gallon or two gallon size).

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Coghlan-s-...arrier/8586943
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Old 25-11-2015, 17:31   #143
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Re: What are essential foods to bring?

I guess I missed the part where spending dollars to save nickles makes sense. Electric (solar or generator ) is cheaper than and much less hassle than ice boxes. A dorm sized freezer uses little power, especially if full. So also a small refrigerator. You could replace your $100 units every year and eventually would approach the cost of keel heat exchangers. Propane burners and grills beat the hell out of electric. There is a reason why KISS is so widely understood.
Of course, if you are about to embark on a long voyage ignore this common sense. I suspect 99% of the readers on this site are not in your situation.
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Old 25-11-2015, 17:43   #144
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Re: What are essential foods to bring?

I think I have found the answer - Dometic CF-025DC Portable Freezer/Refrigerator Slim/Tall, Gray

Amazon.com: Dometic CF-025DC Portable Freezer/Refrigerator Slim/Tall, Gray: Automotive

The 23l looks great value ($384), and it would freeze water in 2ltr bottles to put in the ice box. Uses 3 amps apparently.

Dometic are the firm that make the Origo alcohol stoves.
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Old 25-11-2015, 17:59   #145
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Re: What are essential foods to bring?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamburking View Post
m.
a full week with no electricity. I have always found ICE to be pretty cheap, and available at every marina.
n.

That of course depends where you cruise. Sometimes ice is so far from your boat that it's melted by the time you get back. There is ice in some fishing villages so fishermen can get their catch back. That's a bonus especially if they use blocks, they last so much longer. If you go out cruising without a reefer you will end up with warm cheap beer.
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Old 25-11-2015, 18:32   #146
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Re: What are essential foods to bring?

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I guess I missed the part where spending dollars to save nickles makes sense. Electric (solar or generator ) is cheaper than and much less hassle than ice boxes. A dorm sized freezer uses little power, especially if full. So also a small refrigerator. You could replace your $100 units every year and eventually would approach the cost of keel heat exchangers. Propane burners and grills beat the hell out of electric. There is a reason why KISS is so widely understood.
Of course, if you are about to embark on a long voyage ignore this common sense. I suspect 99% of the readers on this site are not in your situation.
Hi Dave.
Well the first trip will be bringing the boat home temporarily, and that will mean a departure from 'somewhere' in North America, down through the Caribbean, and then across to Cape Verde, up through the Canaries, and maybe mooring up in Spain/Portugal if I get back late in the year, for a quick trip home with a cheap flight from Faro/Malaga/Wherever (my cousin who lives in Andalucia can boat sit for me for a couple of weeks). If I get back a bit earlier, then I'll get the boat back to the UK so I can get some of my gear onto it.

I would also like to get Coppercoat done somewhere before long too (I am not after a big boat by the way, I am after a long keel in the 28 to 33 ft sort of region).

Some of the domestic $100 small fridges (2.7 cu ft) I have looked at come with a 5 year warranty and good compressors, and they are tempting. But having seen the quality Dometic put out with their Origo brand, I'll splurge I think.

I've used propane BBQ's, and frankly, I won't entertain having one on a boat. I'd rather do toast with oxyacetylene.

Of course the great thing with one of those George Foreman Grills, isn't just the superb Panini. Isn't just the pizza.

It's the PANCAKES TOO! which is the clincher.

Now if that doesn't count for a significant improvement in quality of life, I just don't know what does.

PS. Good points Guy. Of course if you can hit -15 deg C for the Jägermeister, that's a big plus too.
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Old 25-11-2015, 19:46   #147
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Re: What are essential foods to bring?

Ribbit, with all respect, da,
With a small boat the best strategy might be to learn about cruising with no refrigeration. Refrigeration is a luxury, but not needed. Many foods can be kept without refrigeration, they just have to be treated right.
Also, if you are traveling alone a single burner butane stove might give you pancakes without the hassle of energy management. Those small appliances like the George Forman grill, are very energy hungry.
You are kind of going about things backward, reinventing the wheel.
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Old 26-11-2015, 00:07   #148
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Re: What are essential foods to bring?

Hi Ribbit.....the unit mentioned is also sold as a Waeco. We also have one of these and they work very well as a fridge - but not so well as a freezer. We use ours as a fridge only for short car trips. I agree that many folk cruise without a fridge but having one really improve the quality of our lives. This particular unit shall eventually freeze water but it shall be running in 'turbo' mode constantly to do so - drawing maximum amps 24/7. Beware. Weaco/Dometic units below 35 litres are very adequate but the bigger units use the Danfoss compressor which is a tried and tested unit that really does work. Add your extra insulation and you shall be happy. Spend a little more and you'll benefit enormously from increased capacity and better energy efficiency. To run the >35 litre unit is not too difficult via solar. My own preference would be to buy the 40 or 50 litre unit.
We use a Magma gas barbeque on the back of our boat and it gets used a lot - we love it. We use a dedicated gas cylinder to keep the gas run short and to ensure security of an alternative cooking arrangement.
Have you thought about buying a boat in UK waters? There are a heap of good buys there - perhaps not so many long keels but with Sadlers, Contessa's, Nicholsons etc literally at give away prices............
You could save an awful lot of cash on airfares etc by starting your new life this way.


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I think I have found the answer - Dometic CF-025DC Portable Freezer/Refrigerator Slim/Tall, Gray

Amazon.com: Dometic CF-025DC Portable Freezer/Refrigerator Slim/Tall, Gray: Automotive

The 23l looks great value ($384), and it would freeze water in 2ltr bottles to put in the ice box. Uses 3 amps apparently.

Dometic are the firm that make the Origo alcohol stoves.
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Old 13-12-2015, 14:43   #149
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Re: What are essential foods to bring?

I am finding this thread very interesting and very informative. In my plans to make my journey the part about food and what to or not to take. I am not much of a red meat eater and prefer a more healthy diet. Fish is fine but i am not a fisherman (cant sit still that long). My biggest concern is how to keep it from going bad so i look for you seasoned sailors to inform. As you can see i don't sport a large boat so space is very important So where am i headed..the keys first then over (if all goes well). So i am listening to everything u say looking for those tips and or ideas that all of your years of sailing has taught you...and yes i am going to take advantage of your mistakes and success..
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Old 13-12-2015, 16:27   #150
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Re: What are essential foods to bring?

Indeed Hank, a very interesting and enjoyable thread.

It does remind of my first boat, a Morgan 32. When I first got her home I stocked her as if I were about to leave on a long voyage. I bought cases of stuff. A year later I threw most of it away because it had gone bad. Now I only stock for the length of the voyage. A weekend, a two week trip and so on. There is a little surplus but not much.

Moral, try to avoid "cruiseritis" and be real. A weekend cruiser that followed all the advice would be wasting a ton of money. It's great advice for when you go long term cruising. Try some of the stuff on weekends and learn what you like, don't like. Build your own list.

We'll see you out there.

Rich


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