Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-08-2015, 02:29   #1
Registered User
 
c-lion's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: ireland
Boat: lagoon 380
Posts: 12
High pressure cooker and botulism

Before a crossing I can food: vegetables stew, meats, poultry etc., in a high pressure cooker in glass jars. Now I am reading that there could be a chance of botulism in the food while stored. Does anyone have experience with canning and storing foodstuffs with the help of a pressure cooker?


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPad met behulp van Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________

__________________
c-lion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2015, 03:53   #2
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,586
Images: 240
Re: High pressure cooker and botulism

Check out canning at Miss Vickie’s excellent pressure cooking site.
Pressure Cooker Recipes
canning section
__________________

__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2015, 11:26   #3
Registered User
 
sparrowhawk1's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Miami Beach Fl
Boat: Colombia Cc 11.8
Posts: 1,252
Re: High pressure cooker and botulism

+1 miss Vicky. The canning jar lids "ping" after you can them and if there's any gases inside they will "expand" and when you press on them they will Klink. I've also use Tattler lids which are reusable but they're a little harder to tell if you get a good seal. I'm not an expert but I think the main thing is to make sure there is a "vacuum" when you take the lid off
__________________
sparrowhawk1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2015, 20:56   #4
Registered User
 
pesarsten's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: St Pete
Boat: Sabre 34
Posts: 461
Re: High pressure cooker and botulism

I also home can to stock up my galley. I believe that you are very safe from the dreaded botulin toxin as long as you always follow the rules for canning. You can get them on the web or buy a book, Ball has published one for many years.

Always follow tested recipes, always cook for the required time, look at the lid and make sure it is under vacuum before you open the jar. Look at the contents and smell them.

If the contents will be heated for consumption be sure to bring it to a boil for several minutes.

When in doubt toss it out!
__________________
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
pesarsten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2015, 21:57   #5
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Oregon to Alaska
Boat: Wheeler Shipyard 83' ex USCG
Posts: 1,708
Re: High pressure cooker and botulism

When I commercial fished, my wife canned 6+ albacore a year. Also some fruits and vegetables. I did the catching and cleaning. But I know meats need a higher temperature than boiling hence cooking under pressure to raise the temperature to about 240° F.
Many places publish temp/time tables.
Most fishermen's wives did canning. Anything local that could be canned. Many made premade soups and stews. I never heard of a poisoning. Not much refrigeration back then, just for the fish. Most of us had a diesel stove with a pressure cooker going all day. Sometimes a pot of beans. At night in the anchorage it reminded me of Blazing Saddles.
__________________
Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2015, 04:20   #6
Registered User
 
c-lion's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: ireland
Boat: lagoon 380
Posts: 12
Re: High pressure cooker and botulism

Those were the days👍
Thanks for your replies. I will follow recipes and think we are safe with cooking times with meats. I am not sure about canning vegetables as cooking times will be shorter and reheating before consumption too. I will try to find out how to go about and report back when I know.
Thanks
__________________
c-lion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2015, 09:39   #7
Registered User
 
Sailor647's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Hailing Port: Portland, Oregon
Boat: Norseman 400
Posts: 197
Re: High pressure cooker and botulism

Hi everyone. Mrs. Sailor647 here.

I canned for years on land. Everything from fruits and vegetables to stews, sauces, albacore, and meat. I strongly urge you to purchase and follow to the letter the Blue Book Ball Canning Guide. Some vegetables can be water bath canned, some need to be pressure canned. (It depends on their acid level in the raw state.) Different foods and different size jars have different time - and different pressures requirements (if pressure canned.) Canning is part cooking, part science, and part medicine. Take it seriously.

"I'm not an expert but I think the main thing is to make sure there is a "vacuum" when you take the lid off."

Having a vacuum will not prevent botulism from growing inside a canned jar. Botulism bacteria are anaerobic. Meaning they will produce toxin just fine in a nicely sealed jar.

"Always follow tested recipes, always cook for the required time, look at the lid and make sure it is under vacuum before you open the jar. Look at the contents and smell them."

You can't smell botulism.

"I also home can to stock up my galley. I believe that you are very safe from the dreaded botulin toxin as long as you always follow the rules for canning. You can get them on the web or buy a book, Ball has published one for many years."

Highly recommend the Ball Blue Book.

"Always follow tested recipes, always cook for the required time, look at the lid and make sure it is under vacuum before you open the jar. Look at the contents and smell them."

Again, you can't detect botulism this way.

"If the contents will be heated for consumption be sure to bring it to a boil for several minutes."

Boiling destroys the toxin produced, but does NOT kill the organism. Botulism bacteria are destroyed at temperatures higher than boiling - which is what happens when you put the contents under pressure.
Example: You open a jar of improperly home canned stew (that happens to contain botulism), bring to a quick boil, put it into bowls to cool, and forget about it for a hour because sailing needs your attention. Result: Some of the toxin may have been destroyed but not all. The living spores (which are not destroyed by 212 degrees) that were present in the improperly canned stew will begin producing more toxin under the surface (they are anaerobic remember) and you will likely get sick.

There are different times, different pressures, and different processes (water bath vs pressure) for each food you can. It is imperative that the gauge on your pressure canner is tested and reflects the actual pounds of pressure. If the pressure gauge reads high, it says 10 pounds but the pressure is actually 7 pounds, you won't get the contents in the jars to a high enough temperature to kill botulism.

All this being said, I loved home canning and highly recommend it. Just do it right and follow the time-tested, mother-approved rules provided by Ball.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botulism
Botulism US /ˈbɒtʃʉlɪzəm/ UK /ˈbɒtjʊlɪzəm/ (Latin, botulus, a sausage[1]) is a rare and potentially fatal illness caused by a toxin produced by the bacteria Clostridium botulinum. The disease begins with weakness, trouble seeing, feeling tired, and trouble speaking. This may then be followed by weakness of the arms, chest muscles, and legs. The disease does not usually affect consciousness or cause a fever.[2]

Botulism can occur in a few different ways. The bacterial spores that cause it are common in both soil and water. They produce botulinum toxin when exposed to low oxygen levels and certain temperatures. Foodborne botulism happens when food containing the toxin is eaten. Infant botulism happens when the bacteria develops in the intestines and releases toxin. Typically this only happens in children less than six months of age as after that protective mechanisms develop. Wound botulism is found most often among those who inject street drugs. In this situation spores enter a wound and, in the absence of oxygen, release toxin. It is not passed directly between people. The diagnosis is confirmed by finding the toxin or bacteria in the person in question.[2]

Prevention is primarily by proper food preparation. The toxin, though not the organism, is destroyed by heating to more than 85 °C (185 °F) for longer than 5 minutes. Honey can contain the organism, and for this reason honey should not be fed to children of under 12 months. Treatment is with an antitoxin. In those who lose their ability to breathe on their own, mechanical ventilation, potentially for months may be required. Antibiotics may be used for wound botulism. Death occurs in 5 to 10% of people. Botulism can affect many other animals.[2]

Signs and symptoms[edit]
The muscle weakness of botulism characteristically starts in the muscles supplied by the cranial nerves. A group of twelve nerves controls eye movements, the facial muscles and the muscles controlling chewing and swallowing. Double vision, drooping of both eyelids, loss of facial expression and swallowing problems may therefore occur, as well as In addition to affecting the voluntary muscles, it can also cause disruptions in the autonomic nervous system. This is experienced as a dry mouth and throat (due to decreased production of saliva), postural hypotension (decreased blood pressure on standing, with resultant lightheadedness and risk of blackouts), and eventually constipation (due to decreased peristalsis).[3] Some of the toxins (B and E) also precipitate nausea and vomiting.[3] difficulty with talking. The weakness then spreads to the arms (starting in the shoulders and proceeding to the forearms) and legs (again from the thighs down to the feet).[3]

Severe botulism leads to reduced movement of the muscles of respiration, and hence problems with gas exchange. This may be experienced as dyspnea (difficulty breathing), but when severe can lead to respiratory failure, due to the buildup of unexhaled carbon dioxide and its resultant depressant effect on the brain. This may lead to coma and eventually death if untreated.[3]

Clinicians frequently think of the symptoms of botulism in terms of a classic triad: bulbar palsy and descending paralysis, lack of fever, and clear senses and mental status ("clear sensorium").[4]

Botulism US /ˈbɒtʃʉlɪzəm/ UK /ˈbɒtjʊlɪzəm/ (Latin, botulus, a sausage[1]) is a rare and potentially fatal illness caused by a toxin produced by the bacteria Clostridium botulinum. The disease begins with weakness, trouble seeing, feeling tired, and trouble speaking. This may then be followed by weakness of the arms, chest muscles, and legs. The disease does not usually affect consciousness or cause a fever.[2]

Botulism can occur in a few different ways. The bacterial spores that cause it are common in both soil and water. They produce botulinum toxin when exposed to low oxygen levels and certain temperatures. Foodborne botulism happens when food containing the toxin is eaten. Infant botulism happens when the bacteria develops in the intestines and releases toxin. Typically this only happens in children less than six months of age as after that protective mechanisms develop. Wound botulism is found most often among those who inject street drugs. In this situation spores enter a wound and, in the absence of oxygen, release toxin. It is not passed directly between people. The diagnosis is confirmed by finding the toxin or bacteria in the person in question.[2]

Prevention is primarily by proper food preparation. The toxin, though not the organism, is destroyed by heating to more than 85 °C (185 °F) for longer than 5 minutes. Honey can contain the organism, and for this reason honey should not be fed to children of under 12 months. Treatment is with an antitoxin. In those who lose their ability to breathe on their own, mechanical ventilation, potentially for months may be required. Antibiotics may be used for wound botulism. Death occurs in 5 to 10% of people. Botulism can affect many other animals.[2]
__________________
Sailor647 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2015, 11:51   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 184
Re: High pressure cooker and botulism

Straight from the horse's mouth.... pdf link



Complete Guide to Home Canning - National Center for Home Food ...

http://nchfp.uga.edu/publications/us...Home%20Can.pdf


Lots more here

usda pressure canning guide lines - Google Search
__________________
farm sail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2015, 19:31   #9
Registered User
 
GafferMate's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Port Bonbonon, Siaton, Negros Oriental, P.I.
Boat: 1975 Bluewater38-bare hull#38/Atkin's INGRID/Gaff Ketch
Posts: 61
Re: High pressure cooker and botulism

Though it has been fifteen years since I last canned anything, those years prior saw a lot of action while we were building our boat and then crossing the Pacific.

No one yet has mentioned the difficulty of keeping a constant temperature while canning--if it drops below the required temp, you must START ALL OVER AGAIN. Hated that, hated what I thought it was doing to the vitamins and texture, as well, so was thrilled when I found a device for regulating pressure while canning, purchased sometime during the 1980's from Embarcadero Home Cannery in Oakland, California.

The unit (patent pending 1979) is attached to a single burner propane stove, has a pressure hose leading to a short nipple inserted between canner and steam release valve. When the proper canning temperature is reached, a threaded nut locks the heat sensitive unit connected to stove & gas supply, thereafter regulating the flame when it senses any fluctuations--automatically raising or lowering the flame to maintain a constant internal temperature. When demonstrating it to us, a wet cloth was wiped across the large pot, which IMMEDIATELY altered the flame to keep the temperature from dropping!

It was FANTASTIC--but going on line just now to be able to give you a link, I saw nothing of it in the website. I emailed them, hope to learn it is available somewhere and will post it if so, but in the meantime am asking if anyone else has any knowledge of this device. OR, if sent a very poor photocopy of the unit's installation use instructions, they might be able to produce their own device if they know anything about assembling such things. It was very straight-forward. Simple-looking--possibly deceptive, though, with the sensing unit itself.

I plan to be again doing some canning so will still trying to locate the designer in case I need it repaired.

Home canned food is so wonderful...such a blessing during passages to be able to simply open a jar of meatballs, or chili verde, sausages--beef stew without all the gooey gravy and no meat--fish of course, too. Also deserts, though you don't need a canner for those...fruit cakes and banana or carrot cakes can be baked direct in jars, in an oven, and sealed immediately to preserve them. Wonderful, powerful memories; we celebrated our first long passage, La Paz, Baja to the Gambiers (46 days), with champagne, balsamic string beans, and Alaskan king salmon--a canned gift from Rita & Bob Valiene, aboard RITANNA. It was as if they had joined us for dinner in the cockpit.
__________________
GafferMate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2015, 22:22   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1
Re: High pressure cooker and botulism

I have canned food over the years using both hot water bath for high acid foods and pressure canning for low acid foods and meats and have not had any problems. I think that by mindfully following the instructions in the "Ball Blue book" on pressure canning you will be very safe. I think that it should be available online. PeterB
__________________
PeterB1940 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2015, 04:36   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bellevue
Boat: Jeanneau DS 49
Posts: 52
Re: High pressure cooker and botulism

We use our quite a bit, the new pressure cookers are almost fool proof. I have canned quite a bit of salmon and crab. Not a worry and they were great underway
__________________
Some days you are the Pigeon, other days your the Statue !
dilligaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2015, 07:17   #12
Registered User
 
c-lion's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: ireland
Boat: lagoon 380
Posts: 12
Re: High pressure cooker and botulism

Thank you all very much, very helpful advise. I also have asked my question at Miriam Koene, she is doing a PhD on botulism at Wageningen university in the Netherlands. Her reply is:

When canning it is important that any bacteria spores are killed. Using a high pressure cooker is indeed the safest to avoid bacteria spores to grow and create toxins. A temperature of 120 degrees Celsius for at least 12 minutes should be enough to kill all traces.
Possibly you might cook, as an extra precaution, the canned food just a few minutes before consumption. If, in spite of canning at high pressure still toxins are present, then they will be killed at 100 degrees Celsius.
Have a good trip!

Happy sailing and canning!
Reina
__________________

__________________
c-lion is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pressure cooker vs. Thermal Cooker vs. Wonderbag CaliforniaGirl Provisioning: Food & Drink 24 08-11-2015 14:57
Beans and Rice Together in Pressure Cooker ? saltysiren Provisioning: Food & Drink 33 01-03-2011 18:20
Pressure Cooker Tips GordMay Provisioning: Food & Drink 4 24-04-2009 08:06
favorite pressure cooker JusDreaming Provisioning: Food & Drink 6 08-05-2007 19:02
Watermaker From A Pressure Cooker Se Langt Provisioning: Food & Drink 14 09-04-2005 05:06



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 23:47.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.