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Old 15-03-2012, 14:52   #16
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Re: Bread not Rising

Fleischmann's kinda owns the US market for baking yeast so it obviously works well enough for most people. They DO have a help line available and I'd suggest giving them a call, the folks who answer it have come across most problems before.

Proofing the yeast, something that needs to be done. It could be past date, or could be a bad batch, proofing is easy enough to make sure if the yeast IS the problem.

Might also be the oven temp is out of whack, an oven thermometer to check that would help.

Yes I bake, but like raising cattle, I'd prefer to pay someone else and just buy the end result of their expertise.
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Old 15-03-2012, 15:27   #17
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Re: Bread not Rising

Was your flour bag open/exposed to air for a long time before you tried baking?

Regarding mixing: if the dough is overmixed, it won't rise. I usually use a dough mixer until the dough "catches" and for 0.5-1 minute after, and then another 1-2 min by hand (depending on how it feels). Make sure that you loosely cover the dough with plastic wrap so that it doesn't dry out...

Oh, and how much time do you wait for it to rise before 1st folding?
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Old 16-03-2012, 06:38   #18
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Re: Bread not Rising

Isn't gluten one of those bad foods or is it just about allergies?
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Old 16-03-2012, 11:07   #19
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Re: Bread not Rising

Gluten hasn't been proven to have any special nutritional value, it puts the elasticity and "thickness" in some foods made with it. Prior to then, doctors called it "celiac" or "celiac sprue" and said only infants had it, they outgrew it by age 4. The problem is that some 1-3% of all anglos have some intolerance or allergic reaction to it, according to recent estimates. It may go away after infancy--but then recurs in the 20's or 40's and no one has any idea of why. (At least now they know that chickenpox WILL come back as shingles.)

You can have "gluten poisoning" (i.e. toxic reactions) for twenty years and never figure it out. Ten years ago maybe three doctors in the entire US knew about it. Now, it is a fad diet. But for those are are "intollerant" or allergic to it, the presence of gluten in food is like radiation poisoning. The exposure iscumulative, and every time gluten hits the gut lining, it does some damage which eventually kills off part of the lining, causing permanent inability to absorb some nutrients, and triggering autoimmune dieases including arthritis and possibly some cancers.

Very subtle, very nasty. Unless you're outright sensitve, already damaged, in which case you will have crippling cramps and (literally) explosive diarrhea, tipping you off to a problem.

The big problem with gluten is that food processors have been using it like salt. It is even used in many soup products to add thickness to the soup, instead of using a more expensive animal fat. It shows up in "frozen deserts" for the same purpose. And if you toast a burger bun on an oiled restaurant breakfast grill? Gluten transfers into the oil, rendering anything that is cooked in the same place toxic to folks who are sensitive to it.

Just like strawberries, peanuts, and shellfish, no problem unless you have a response. UNlike conventional allegens, because it doesn't result in anaphylactic shock. It kills you 20-40 years down the line after weakening your whole body, instead of on the spot.

Which is why I liken it to radiation poisoning. Cumulative, slow, invisible. Deadly.
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Old 16-03-2012, 11:45   #20
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Re: Bread not Rising

the fear of gluten is a trendy thing.. i dont DO trendy.....without gluten the bread wont stick together as bread......
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Old 16-03-2012, 12:03   #21
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Re: Bread not Rising

By nature, boats are breezy and well-ventilated and yeast needs steady warmth. Do you have a large cooler? Let bread rise in it.
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Old 16-03-2012, 12:12   #22
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Re: Bread not Rising

you could try baking soda. Sodium bi carbonate. As it is heated,~200 degrees F, it will release carbon dioxide and water, forming sodium carbonate, if the temp goes much higher it will release a second CO2 molecule.

It is used for leavening and as it releases CO2 and water by adding heat makes for a good dry fire extinghuisher.
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Old 16-03-2012, 13:03   #23
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Re: Bread not Rising

"without gluten the bread wont stick together as bread...... "
It is difficult, but not impossible, to make a decent gluten-free bread.

Trendy? Yeah, but that's like saying washing your hands before surgery is trendy. Once upon a time, people didn't know any better. Now we know, and thank god for the nut jobs who "know" they have a gluten problem. They're making it much simpler for the folks who really DO have one, to avoid the stuff.

Got 100 names in your email contacts? Or your phone book? Then you very likely know two people who are being slowly poisoned by gluten. Complaining about aches, runs, weakness, with no idea what the problem is.

PCBs, fireproofing chemicals in bedding and fabrics, DDT...there's a long list of stuff you can absorb for fifty years before it kills you. Gluten? Has only been recognized as a killer for the last 10-ish years. For maybe only 2% of the population.

That's still a killer.
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Old 16-03-2012, 13:22   #24
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Re: Bread not Rising

as each individual is different, then each individual needs to identify the problems with the foods eaten and adjust accordingly. just because some have difficulty doesnt mean everyone does. folks have the responsibility to care for self and allow others the freedom to do as fits them.
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Old 16-03-2012, 13:23   #25
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Re: Bread not Rising

sugar or a little lemon will activate the yeast, keep it warm. yeast needs a cool environment to stay fresh, then a warm environment to rise. There are many bread recipes that I have used that use cold milk and 1/2 cake flour and 1/2 regular flour. all purpose works fine so does bread flour.
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Old 16-03-2012, 13:34   #26
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Re: Bread not Rising

Good grief. It seems to me that the essence of cruising is managing the many risks we may encounter so as to maximize our enjoyment while not having bad things happen.

According to Wikipedia about 1% of the population has celiac disease - which is about the same as peanut allergies, and less than seafood allergies. One could also die of bee stings (KILLER BEES!!!!), lightning strikes, shark attacks, yellow fever, etc. It is good to know of these risks, and if they apply then by all means adapt behavior to minimize risks. If not then enjoy fresh wheat bread, shrimp and lobster, and peanut butter. Go swimming. Enjoy life; be aware but not afraid.

From what I have seen the greatest risk to cruisers is consumption of alcohol resulting in drowning. Next is heart attacks (a personal favorite). A rational plan to manage risks would address alcohol and heart disease, and any individual risks (e.g. celiac disease if diagnosed).

The point of gluten (literally the glue in wheat - remember making glue from flour?) is that it holds the flour together to trap the gas that yeast gives off, forming bubbles in the dough. The more gluten the better the dough traps the gas; in whole grain breads the bran tends to puncture these bubbles so high gluten is particularly useful for getting a good rising. So long as the yeast is healthy there will be gas, and as long as there is adequate gluten the gas will be trapped, and the result will be a good loaf. QED. And that is why it is worth tracking down high gluten flour.
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Old 16-03-2012, 14:16   #27
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Re: Bread not Rising

"According to Wikipedia about 1% of the population has celiac disease - which is about the same as peanut allergies,"
Eh, no actually, not 1% and not the same. The US NIH estimated in 2005 that 0.4-0.6% of the US public had some peanut allergy. There has been no general consensus as to the percent of gluten allergy, or how to separate the outright allergy from celiac disease. The estimates for celiac disease among the european/anglo percent of the US population are 1-3% depending on the source.

That's three times the size of the peanut allergy group, if you take the middle figure of 1.5% vs 0.5%. The problem being, with a peanut allergy you'll find out about it RIGHT NOW as you choke up and roll on the floor. With celiac or a gluten allergy, you may not find out until ten years down the line, when the intestinal villi have been destroyed, arthritis has been established, or your gut has to be partially rmeoved due to cancers that start after too many cycles of damage and regrowth.

this is not to say that gluten should be banned from food, or that it is a bad thing for most people. Just that it is a very dangerous ingredient to a significant number of people, and the processed food industry has spent most of the last decade arguing about if or how to label it, instead of putting it on their allergen lists. The FDA was going to include wheat along with the other allergens required since (2008?) but instead, everyone started to debate whether to label wheat, or gluten. And what level could be considered "gluten free". So there are still no standards on gluten labelling, while those with shock reactions can at least find fish, eggs, milk, peanuts, and the like shown on labels.

None of which has to do with yeast not rising.

And given sufficient alcohol, no one drowns, they just fall down and fall asleep, safely below decks one hopes.
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Old 16-03-2012, 14:43   #28
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Re: Bread not Rising

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Originally Posted by hogesinwa View Post
I'm having trouble getting my bread to rise on the boat. Been making bread for years with no problems but can't do it here in the US.

I'm using King Arthur strong flour and Fleischmann's Active Dry Yeast from a bottle.

The loaves are not rising more than a little. I've proved the dough in the oven (off), the microwave and in a covered bowl. Can't get a lift.


Any suggestions? Any recipes? (I like light white bread)

thanks

try viagra
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Old 16-03-2012, 15:05   #29
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Re: Bread not Rising

Hellosailor, that is a very strange take on things (from my perspective). Spending as much space as you have on a problem that affects few people, and then dismissing in a silly sentence the very real dangers of alcohol, is absurd. In the extreme, the average cruiser's health, life expectancy, and wallet will be far better served by abstaining from alcohol than bread (not that I am recommending either). If anyone suspects they have a health problem they should seek out professional advice; and if they are diagnosed with gluten-related problems then they should avoid gluten. Someday there may be inexpensive screening available for this, and many other, diseases. Until then, if there are no symptoms there is no need to change behavior. Now I'm going to live dangerously and have some peanut butter on wheat bread...
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Old 16-03-2012, 15:17   #30
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Re: Bread not Rising

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Originally Posted by tgzzzz View Post
Isn't gluten one of those bad foods or is it just about allergies?
I have had celiac disease for about 20 years. I control it by never eating wheat, barley, oats or rye. That includes any thing made with those products. I do just fine by eating this way. I don't believe that eating "too much" gluten made me this way. I don't believe gluten is a bad food. It's just bad for me. I don't know if it's a true allergy as allergies go. I just have to face the fact that my body doesn't like it.
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