A mad experiment

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by charliehows

heres a mad experiment for ya; how long will an average marine dunny last if the skipper is squitting into it every 10 minutes or so in a remote anchorage due to something dodgy he consumed; my initial data indicates 3-4 days of successful functioning without failure, havent found myself keen to attempt another trial, wont be boiling steak in a shopping bag anytime soon.

Oh, man, reading that with an Aussi accent just made my day! Squitting! I'm gonna be using that word a lot!

I am interested in the results of the OP's experiment though. Not sure I'll be trying it, but it's always good to know my options.

[JanetGroene]

Keep working on this. You didn't mention type of deep fryer and type and temp or fat? Could that make a difference? An experiment I did when writing my book The Galley Book (now OP but old copies found on Amazon) was to can in tin. You first roast the meat in the oven in the open tin, then crimp can, then process. Of course, it was still canned meat. Down side to this is you have to special order tins and crimping tool. Tins are unbreakable and can be re-used if you open them around the edge and have new lids on hand. I found all this too much trouble but it's doable and food-safe.

[owly]

Originally Posted by JanetGroene

Keep working on this. You didn't mention type of deep fryer and type and temp or fat? Could that make a difference? An experiment I did when writing my book The Galley Book (now OP but old copies found on Amazon) was to can in tin. You first roast the meat in the oven in the open tin, then crimp can, then process. Of course, it was still canned meat. Down side to this is you have to special order tins and crimping tool. Tins are unbreakable and can be re-used if you open them around the edge and have new lids on hand. I found all this too much trouble but it's doable and food-safe.

Brand of deep fryer??? El Cheapo Walmart....Temp 450


This is is not a process I am advocating. It is not practical, nor can it be considered an inherently "safe" process, as it is dependent on long incubation times, and optimal incubation temperatures to make bacterial action visible, and even then you cannot be 100% sure that the very beginnings of bacterial action from botulinum are not occurring. It's an experiment........ period. I just get started on something like this and have to pursue it all the way....



H.W.

[Minnesail]

Interesting experiment, I wish you the best!


However, I disagree with this point:

Originally Posted by owly

there is no time limit, essentially you cannot over cook.

Too much time affects the texture. You can leave it in for five days and sure, it’s still medium-rare, but the texture has gone to heck. It’ll be mushy and lack that certain feel you want when biting into a steak.

Chicken is even more sensitive. I do chicken four hours or less; if you do more than that it really mushes it.

[sdowney717]

Like another poster said, the bacteria that create toxins that can kill you, you dont notice in the food. Always wondered how people could eat poisonous food and not know it till I read that.
So your taking a risk because it could be bad and you wont be able to tell. Bacteria and fungi that spoil and rot food, you can easily notice and wont eat such.

It just seems like an experiment that has a Darwin award for you at the end.

Do you feel lucky?

Is this like taking selfies standing on edges of cliffs or on top of tall buildings?
Risky behaviors?

[owly]

My second phase, a 5 day exposure to 95F constant temp to promote incubation is completed, and I will repeat that two or 3 more times, once each month.


This is an incubation phase at optimal incubation temperature for botulinum. The same time and temp used when doing a streaking test for lab testing.


The standard CDC warnings are that dangerous microbes in canned foods cannot be detected by normal people period........ no buts about it. However this caution is intended for ordinary canned goods and ordinary folks that do conventional canning.. a shotgun approach if you will.



1: Canned goods have an air space over the food, so gas production may not be observable until the dimple in the jar lid is lost, or the can swells. This DOES happen in time if there is bacterial action.

With what I am doing using food saver bags, any bubbles or gas accumulation is immediately visible.


2: Time..... Canned goods might be eaten at any time after canning, and dangerous levels of toxins may build up before pressure is observable due to the above factors. You do not see air in air..... In a clear container with no airspace it is visible virtually immediately.
I'm providing 3 months at warm temps............



3: Temperature..... Most folks store canned goods in a cool place.... a cellar or basement, etc. it's pretty much the standard. That means that bacterial growth is retarded.

My objective here in every respect is to PROMOTE bacterial growth, if the bacteria or bacterial spores are present. Promote it to the point that it is obvious, and observable. To do this, I am providing the perfect environment for botulinum.... anerobic (sealed), ideal nutrition, and ideal temperature, and plenty of time.




**** In the last experiment two out of my three packages failed well before the 90 day mark. The third appeared perfect in every way.......


H.W.

[owly]

Originally Posted by Minnesail

Interesting experiment, I wish you the best!


However, I disagree with this point:


Too much time affects the texture. You can leave it in for five days and sure, it’s still medium-rare, but the texture has gone to heck. It’ll be mushy and lack that certain feel you want when biting into a steak.

Chicken is even more sensitive. I do chicken four hours or less; if you do more than that it really mushes it.

At 130F, it is difficult to overcook, but you are correct that it does become more tender, and eventually it would become mushy. This is one of the reasons I chose chuck. 48 hours at 130F, and it becomes approximately as tender as rib eye. I would not do this with rib eye or porterhouse. The only reason to sous vide them is to achieve that perfect medium rare all the way through prior to a very brief time on the grill, as they do not need to be tenderized. Sous Vide is an amazing tool, but needs to be used properly for what you are cooking.


H.W.

[valhalla360]

Seems like it would be a whole lot simpler to just get a small portable freezer and power it...yes even on a small boat.

[Minnesail]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Seems like it would be a whole lot simpler to just get a small portable freezer and power it...yes even on a small boat.

But how is that MAD SCIENTIST?!?!

[owly]

If nobody had sailed beyond the horizon........ the earth would still be flat ;-)

[RaymondR]

I recall from my boyhood that country folk who had access to low or no cost meat would often can it. The cans came in large boxes from a mail order place called Queensland Pastoral Supply aboard a steam train, no road transport in those days.

The meat was precooked then placed into the cans and the lid rolled on in a hand machine. They then placed the cans into a large round galvanized iron bath tub stood on bricks or metal stakes driven into the ground and a fire lit underneath.

There was a small hole in one end which was placed upwards the let the steam out and after the cans had been boiled for a while they used a soldering iron which had been heated in the coals to put a little dab of solder on the hole to seal it.

Many of the workers on sheep and cattle stations received part of their living expenses as fresh meat and canned it to carry them over the lean times in between jobs.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by owly

If nobody had sailed beyond the horizon........ the earth would still be flat ;-)

That's a myth from a book written about Columbus a few centuries after he sailed. There is no contemporary account to suggest anything of the sort:

"The Columbus flat-earth myth perhaps originated with Washington Irving's 1828 biography of Columbus; there's no mention of this before that. His crew wasn't nervous about falling off the Earth."

Greek, Arab, Chinese...all knew and documented at least as far back as 600BC. It was common knowledge among sailors throughout history.

PS: Botulism is also well documented.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Minnesail

But how is that MAD SCIENTIST?!?!

True, brings to mind several Bond villains who set up overly elaborate ways to kill him rather than just putting a bullet in his head.

[RaymondR]

I bottle quick meals using Ball jars and my pressure cooker and have done for years but your experiment sound a little risky. If I was going your route I'd do the ciguatera test thing and feed some to the cat first.