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**Hamish_ct** · 21-06-2016, 17:37

I sail a J24. Snowpetrals advise is right on. In a J24 with only 2 sailors you have to drop the jib immediately!!!!!. Theses boats have sunk. Then Cunningham, vang and outhaul. Get her down wind and stable. I wouldnt even be out in 15 knot wind with 2 sailors. They are like sailing a 24 ft laser. I would only go out in 15knt wind with a crew of 5. You really need the rail meat on those boats.

Also with that kind of wind close all the hatches.

J's are fun but very technical at times. You can sail it very well with only the main up.

My other advise if you don't have one hooked up get a jib cunniham. When flying a Genoa you need it for speed and stability.

Unlike a normal racer cruiser or just cruisers. You can easily broach the boat and get water inside the cabin. The boats are really great in 10 -15 ktts. And can move in light wind. But when I see a day with high winds I'm at the bar not on this boat.

Fair winds and smooth sailing

**Jim Cate** · 21-06-2016, 18:10

You know, I've seen J-24s around for years, but have never sailed one, nor really thought about them. The above discussion has been very interesting to me, for i was completely unaware of the vulnerability of these common boats. For me, the idea of a boat that is not safe to sail in 20 knot winds with only two aboard is kinda strange. And it makes me even more respectful of Webb Chiles in his superficially similar Moore-24 as he wends his way around the world!

It's amazing how often I run across something new to me here on CF!

Jim

knockabout · 21-06-2016, 18:57

depends on where you are / that wind in the direction you are going sounds like an answered prayer from the wind gods / if you don't have the sea room you need to get both sails down and round up before you run out of water / better to repair flogged sails than replace the boat and yourselves /

Snowpetrel · 21-06-2016, 19:37

I think there are three issues with the J24. The cockpit lockers are the biggest problem. If they open in a broach the boat sinks real quick. Even closed they aren't always watertight, so if the boats pinned down they will leak a lot of water into the hull.

The fwd hatch is also often left undogged. If the boat nosedives while running fast she can scoop enough water through the hatch to sink pretty quick.

I suspect a lot of the actual capsizes are due to the fact that with a full crew you have about the same weight of crew as ballast in the keel. So the already marginal static stability (due to most of a the ballast being quite high on the iron keel) is considerably reduced due to 5 heavy people perched on the rail. The real AVS in this case is probably well under 90? With just 2 aboard they might do better, and be less prone to a complete inversion provided all the hatches are shut.

But the power to carry any sail is pretty low with just two. I have raced with my brother two up in gusts to about 20kn. At that point we are pretty much going sideways when on the wind. Even with the main bladed right out and the snaller jib eased to try and keep her on her feet. Because its gusty we still made progress in the lulls, and just hung on in the gusts. Of course jib car is well aft, both cunninhams on real hard, outhaul bar tight and backstay cranked right on. Ideally traveler to windward, sheet eased and only a little kicker so the top of the main isnt powered up.

You need to weather sheet the jib so you can play it from the rail, easing it in the puffs and sheeting in in the lulls. Crew tails. Helm cranks. Helm is real busy, with main, backstay traveller and jib winch all neading to be played in gusty stuff.

With two up you dont want the genoa in anything over 10 knots, and for cruising I wouldn't even bother with it. Get an old main and fit at least one deep reef and a couple of fulll length battens. Same with an old jib, either a deep reef point, or cut it down to a storm jib size. A full length batten at the top would be nice as well, so it could be feathered without the top flogging itself to death. Not class legal, but you are cruising! I would also set up a simple lazyjack system using the pole topper. This would act as a topping lift foe the boom, so at least the whole thing doesn't land in the drink when you drop the halyard!

Raced one three up with gusts to 25. Again nearly stopped in the puffs to windward, but fun downwind with the kite. Definately away planing (not just surfing) when we got a decent puff with the kite up. Good control while planing.

If it got real bad two up I would drop the jib first, lash it down, then ease the main right out, lash the tiller to leeward, then both people can work at dropping the main. Maybe remove the whole boom and sail and stuff them below?

You could set up the spinaker halyard as a backstay aft. Id lie a hull, but if needed the jib could go up with the spinnaker halyard helping to stop the forestay getting too slack. You could even wrap the main halyard around the mast a few times until it reaches the hounds and lead it aft as another backstay.

If you are sailing with just the main in real snotty stuff it can be an idea to set up the pole topper as a babystay to reduce the chance of the mast inverting. Especially if you have reefed the main. Lots of backstay should stop this happening, but no harm in extra rig security.

barnakiel · 22-06-2016, 05:31

I think others have mentioned: when doing things downwind, SAIL FAST.

Better stability and less pressure on the equipment.

Love,
b.

jrbogie · 22-06-2016, 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave22q

I must be missing something! What's wrong with ease the jib sheet to depower it, .

easing the sail powers it up, not depowers it.

jrbogie · 22-06-2016, 08:25

has anybody mentioned heaving to??? assuming sea room to leeward???

reed1v · 22-06-2016, 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrbogie

easing the sail powers it up, not depowers it.

Depends on your point of sail relative to wind. If wind forward of beam, then let out the main. Trouble is, the jib might just cause the boat to veer off and then off you go again. If the wind is well aft of the beam, you are sol unless you want a sleigh ride, a dramatic jibe, or a serious roundup.
Bringing the main in usually enough to handle most situations from getting unruly in that situation.

Problem with sailboats, there are too many variables to give an absolute answer. Experience builds(hopefully) sea sense which will tell the helm what to do. Ted Turner showed this in the Fastnet race. Kept racing in hurricane like conditions while many boats sunk, floundered, or dropped out.

SURV69 · 26-06-2016, 03:29

How much time did you have to notice and react to the squall ... the available time you had to react might greatly help posters to give you more specific ideas on what to have done ...

savoir · 26-06-2016, 06:34

There are lots of ways to handle this situation and no universally correct answer so I'll go through them all. The J24 only has two jibs - a big one and a little one and I'm assuming that you had the big one set.

If the place you want to go is to windward . . . .
1. the boat can sail quite happily with the main flopping around doing almost nothing. Ease the vang, move the jib car aft and ease the mainsheet a little. The boom should be just a foot or so below center and the main will be flapping a bit. If you ease the mainsheet too far the main will start flogging wildly. Sheet the jib in and sail normally to windward. The main will contribute nothing and just be tagging along for the ride. If the boat is still overpowered with jib only then point up just a bit too high which will form a bubble in the front half of the jib. That's OK. It looks funny but it works. The downside is that the boat will slow down.

2. Lower the big jib. Stuff it below and hoist the little jib. Move the jib car aft carry on with those two sails. The little jib on a J24 is always cut flat and isn't very powerful so you should be able to carry it in 27 knots.

If you can reach or run to the place you want to go . . . . .
3. lower the big jib and tie it down. First haul the jib sheet out tight, then go forward with any old piece of rope and tie it around the jib cloth about two feet aft of the forestay. If you have proper sail ties that's even better. If the sail is not tied down the wind might blow it back up the forestay. Don't worry if some of the cloth flops into the water. Provided you have tensioned the foot, all it will do is bounce around on top of the waves. Then you just sail under main only.

4. lower the jib, remove it from the forestay and stuff it down the hatch then sail under main only.

4.you could lower the main and sail under jib only but that can be a little messier. You will have to parcel the main down the length of the boom which is not easy on a windy day. The alternative is to remove the main from the rig entirely and stuff it down the hatch.

5. Sailing to windward under main only is possible but quite slow and the boat won't point too well. the lower speed stops the keel from working properly and you will start slipping sideways.

That'll do.

zedpassway · 03-07-2016, 14:06

It would be great if there was an answer to your question. The problem is that everyone has a different variation of the two or three options based usually on what they did on their boat and lived to tell about it.

And so, of course, it depends on your boat.

And if the person answering never sailed your boat in difficult conditions then you have to take what the old salt has to say with a grain of himself(old salt).

belizesailor · 03-07-2016, 14:27

Have sailed J24s, but never tried to heave to in one. I expect they dont heave to well. Anyone have experience heaving to on one?

zedpassway · 03-07-2016, 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Have sailed J24s, but never tried to heave to in one. I expect they don't heave to well. Anyone have experience heaving to on one?

As almost everyone knows there are basically three choices:

1. 'lay ahull', whereby the yacht adopts a 'beam on' attitude to the wind and waves

2. Run before the wind under bare poles or trailing warps/sea anchors, or perhaps under power, or with very heavily reefed sails

3. Heave to with slight movement into the storm

It is interesting to note that in the famous Fastnet race of 1979, no boat that chose the heave to suffered any serious damage, or loss of life.

However, not all boats heave to easily or can maintain the position easily.

belizesailor · 03-07-2016, 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by zedpassway

As almost everyone knows there are basically three choices:

1. 'lay ahull', whereby the yacht adopts a 'beam on' attitude to the wind and waves

2. Run before the wind under bare poles or trailing warps/sea anchors, or perhaps under power, or with very heavily reefed sails

3. Heave to with slight movement into the storm

It is interesting to note that in the famous Fastnet race of 1979, no boat that chose the heave to suffered any serious damage, or loss of life.

However, not all boats heave to easily or can maintain the position easily.

Still waiting for a relevant response specific to J24s heaving to.