Offshore Nighttime Watch Guidelines

[Red Sky]

This is how we set-up the schedule the last time we did Hawaii to S.F.

This is with 4 crew who are all capable of running the boat solo under normal conditions. With this schedule, if you do the 2000 to 2300 shift, you then have 36 hours off before your next shift, the 0500 to 0800 shift. Meaning, you were able to get, virtually, 2 full nights sleep every 4 days. When you were the "Day off" guy, you were the on-call guy when someone needed help on deck. It paid dividends 15 days into the trip when we ran into 50+ knot of wind and big seas a few hundred miles of the Mendocino coast. 36 hours of 2 man, 2 hour shifts while hand steering.

[captmikem]

I would recommend getting over this fear of getting out of the cockpit. A turn around the deck every couple of ours to check for chafe, make sure lines are squared away, toss flying fish back over the side is prudent and proper. You can see much better from the base of the mast than you can in the cockpit, and you soon become intimately familiar with your deck layout and gear.

Standing on the foredeck or at the base of the mast when the boat is surging through the night is an experience like none other, you get to where you feel in tune with the boat, you feel her working and you feel the wind and swell.

M

[MLOI]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

I personally would have classed 'peeing/fly open significant cause of downing' as even less than 'anecdotal', more like a myth. But am certainly happy to learn differently if there is some data that says otherwise.

Embarrassing admission - I have actually done it.
Coming into the Straits of Jahor on a converted trawler where I was effectively a paying guest. A weld holding a rail made of stainless steel chain gave way when I was leaning on it. Luckily bright daylight and close to shore, I was picked up in 15 minutes, and probably could have swum ashore in 30.

However I'd spent some 50 plus nights on the same vessel where the 10 of us on board were in the habit of doing the same thing. If it had happened at night with no-one on deck (you can't see the rear deck from the wheelhouse) it could have been 10 hours until you were missed. No-one wears any safety gear motoring on a flat calm sea.

So after that experience, I tried to so some research into the story. I contacted the local Safety at Sea instructors, online search, and asked some folks at the Maritime college.

I found absolutely nothing in the way of statistics to support the belief. No-one I have ever met has first hand experience of anyone being lost this way.
However I did get laughed at;
"You really did that? It's supposed to be a joke!"

Mike
(Apologies for going off topic, but I must say I swing to the view of 5 competent sailors, and an auto pilot, that's luxury. Put rules in place to ensure folks stay onboard (ie two up for sail changes etc), otherwise run comfortable watches with one person on watch of say two hours, and ensure everyone gets enough rest. If it gets bumpy move to two on watch, with one up and one sheltering and watching the on watch person all the time. Change one person each hour from sheltering to on deck / helming to off watch. Should be comfortable unless you lose a couple of folks to sickness.)

[danielamartindm]

Originally Posted by Paul L

I just don't buy the reef before night fall approach. We reef when the conditions call for it. There is no point in having your boat bobbing around in rolly seas for 12 hrs because you don't have enough sail up to drive it.

That said for a small crew, I much prefer a reefing setup where at least the first reef can be put in the main from the cockpit only.

Agreed. What's the point of wasting wind by routinely reefing offshore at night?

[Alan Mighty]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

I personally would have classed 'peeing/fly open significant cause of downing' as even less than 'anecdotal', more like a myth. But am certainly happy to learn differently if there is some data that says otherwise.

A government agency of the state of Western Australia published in 2010 a Code of Practice: Man overboard: prevention and response. You likely can download a pdf version from https://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/sites...overboard1.pdf

The Code of Practice does not include statistics. That's not the job of a code of practice.

Here's a clip of what it does include: urinating over the side.jpg

[captmikem]

Originally Posted by Maka

They say we need to be asleep at least 6 hrs, to get to the critical REM sleep.
We try not to let anyone go more than a few days w out it.

Watch schedules and times vary with circumstances. ie. length of passage and crew available.

Radar alarm is always on at night, in fog, or any limited visibility.

Everyone always has their PDF and harness w tether on when in the cockpit...even during the day. Everyone sleeps w their PDF and has it at hand 24/7 except when tied at the dock.

I agree, watches should be tailored to individuals and crews.

I never sail at night, or in limited visibility unless we have to.

couple questions...
if you have the radar alarm on all night, that sucks a LOT of juice, 10 hours of radar would flatten most cruising boats batteries.

Everyone has their PDF on and a harness and a teather? How do you find any crew? In two circumnavigations I do not recall anyone ever wearing a PDF.. and I don't swim.. Forcing people to wear PDFs does not sound like a relaxing day at sea. Even on commercial ships PFDs (working vests) are only required for the deck crew when working on deck.

(watch a you tube video on most people making a crossing... first day they have all this gear on... about the third day you see them wearing a t shirt...)

How do you get any place if you never sail at night or reduced vis?

[captmikem]

Originally Posted by captmikem

Everyone has their PDF on and a harness and

PDF

must be my dyslexia I could never be a cop, would end up giving IUD's to drunk drivers...

M

[Alan Mighty]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

I personally would have classed 'peeing/fly open significant cause of downing' as even less than 'anecdotal', more like a myth. But am certainly happy to learn differently if there is some data that says otherwise.

The Canadian Red Cross published a report on 10 years of facts on drownings in Canada. Should be a copy at: http://www.redcross.ca/cmslib/genera...wn_english.pdf

See: urinating as boating drowning cause.jpg, about 280 KB

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by captmikem

Everyone has their PDF on and a harness and a teather? How do you find any crew?

On my boat, we wear a PFD (with built-in harness) and tether when at sea. I've got a long list of friends who will jump at the chance to go sailing with me. OK, when the conditions are smooth and easy, we may skip the tether, and maybe the PFD, but this is a special case -- the general rule is "wear it and clip on".

I figure that it takes some practice to get comfortable with this safety gear, and if we wait until things are getting hairy then that's exactly the *wrong* time to be figuring it all out. We get our practice when it's easy so we don't get all tangled up when it's hard.

I know that others have a different attitude about this. I've sailed on their boats. But on my boat, those are the rules.

[Maka]

"if you have the radar alarm on all night, that sucks a LOT of juice, 10 hours of radar would flatten most cruising boats batteries."

I have a D 8 House battery, charged by solar panels and engine alternator or generator. It never gets below 50% capacity.

The other question was answered by Paul Elliot.
I would only add that if one needs to go from the cockpit out on deck for some emergency, that is not the time to be sorting out your safety gear.

As far as how we get anywhere by not sailing at night or in the FOG ...When coastal cruising or Island hopping, we cover a lot of water in 10 to 14 hours. Some beautiful sunny days we remain at anchor and don't go anywhere except maybe to shore to explore. We try not to ever be in a hurry and to smell the proverbial Roses as much as possible.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

ANN, am I blind? I dont see fly's open or peeing mentioned anywhere in your link?

I am pretty familiar with the USCG accident statistics (less so with the CDC, but it looks like they get the boating portion of their data from the USCG). I do not remember ever in the 25 years I have been reading their reports having peeing/flys open mentioned as even a minor contributor to MOB.

Alcohol yes. It has always been a line item on the reports. There has been an internal USCG debate about how much to stress that. The prior commander downplayed it a bit based on one reading of the data while the current one has up-played it based on another way to look at it. But everyone agreed it was certainly a contributor.

I personally would have classed 'peeing/fly open significant cause of downing' as even less than 'anecdotal', more like a myth. But am certainly happy to learn differently if there is some data that says otherwise.

That's a very valid criticism. I googled on "drowned men with flies open", and the link I posted was first in the group of articles somewhat related to that topic.

I remember the stories from the Chron, but that would be anecdotal to you, 'cause I read them, not you, and occurred prior to 1989, when Jim and I left to go cruising, so, also, outside the last 25 yrs. I was also told of it, but there again, outside own experience.

Perhaps it is "merely anecdotal." I would think that, if correct, that extreme fatigue could be as likely a contributor as alcohol inspired lack of coordination.

Ann

[Mikado]

Wow !!!,

This has turned out to be a fantastic thread, with a wealth of REAL experience shared by so many for me and all he rest of sailors that are finally ready to kick off our bluewater dreams.

Thank you all for your recommendations regarding safety, watch schedules and watch transition tips.

One thing I was suprised that no one has weighted in on is a communication schedule, whether it be to crew families or weather updates.

Also, do most crew changes include log entries including current lat/long, total distance, sail changes, any ship or other sightings?

Thanks again CF. Your information is sure to give my passage the very best chance for success.

Jeff

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Mikado

Wow !!!,

This has turned out to be a fantastic thread, with a wealth of REAL experience shared by so many for me and all he rest of sailors that are finally ready to kick off our bluewater dreams.

Thank you all for your recommendations regarding safety, watch schedules and watch transition tips.

One thing I was suprised that no one has weighted in on is a communication schedule, whether it be to crew families or weather updates.

Also, do most crew changes include log entries including current lat/long, total distance, sail changes, any ship or other sightings?

Thanks again CF. Your information is sure to give my passage the very best chance for success.

Jeff

Log entries?

If running along the coast in sight of land I log the time any notable feature - headland, lighthouse, etc - is abeam together with distance off. Off soundings I just log the position at 1200 each day. How often you log the weather is up to you. I log the weather whenever we tuck in or shake out a reef and also at 1200.

I also log day's run and av speed each day at 1200 along with total distance and distance to go. I also log engine hours ( no hour meter ).


Its really up to you how much detail you put into the log.

[stormalong]

On offshore passages log entries were made every three hours by the going on watch person as part of the watch change. Position, speed , course, accumulated distance and any unusual conditions are logged. Since I like to sail a direct course to the waypoint offtrack is also noted. I challenge my crew to be as close to on track as they can be although due to conditions that can be miles off. I'd don't like having a single watch person tack or jibe at night.

On day runs I log anchor up, down and significant navigation points in between. Cruising in BC waters tidal currents and rapids need to be planned for the night before and departure times are chosen based on those constraints. Now that I am retired from full time cruising most of my sailing is in Canadian BC waters.

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by Alan Mighty

The Canadian Red Cross published a report on 10 years of facts on drownings in Canada. Should be a copy at: http://www.redcross.ca/cmslib/genera...wn_english.pdf

Alan, Interesting. Thank you. I have learned something . . . . that is the first statistic I have ever seen on that.

It is 1991-2000 data (2003 release) report, I looked at the subsequent reports and they removed this line item (I can't find it in any of them) - I would be curious why - do you happen to know?

The headline above that graph in the report is "Beware of . . . Standing up in Boats . . . " (and urinating is noted as a sub-set of 'standing up'). In my post above I was going to make a comment sort of along those lines - that people standing up (pretty much anywhere on a boat, and certainly including urinating) are ofc 'at risk'. Coming up out of the companionway has been noted as a 'risk point'. There is video of a Clipper race crew coming up, not clipped in yet, not yet in balance or having a good grip on anything, and almost immediately falling/sliding under the lee life line. This point has been made previously about tethers and such - if you need to stand up, especially if you have to use both hands, to do a job (like reefing), you should try to be clipped short, and if you feel at at all unsteady you might consider if it is possible to do the job kneeling or sitting (you can in fact often raise a halyard kneeling or sitting just for instance)..

It is 'questionnaire based' data. I presume that means they interviewed survivors on the boat. They mention alcohol elsewhere in the report, but did not (apparently) ask about alcohol use in this questionnaire - or I wonder if people lie about that if questioned by an 'authority'. As always with questionnaire based data, it would be interesting to see the actual set of questions asked.

Thanks again, I always have a million questions when I see a data point stated like that, but it does at least put some rough statistical parameters about the urinating issue.

Interesting/sad how many people manage to drown in a bathtub (data in one of the more recent canadian drowning studies I looked at).