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Old 13-08-2009, 13:51   #16
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If for example 20% of global warming is man caused and 80% is nature, then even if somehow the USA stops using all coal and petroleum products, we will still have virtually no effect on the warming. Lets say it is the reverse, 80% human caused and 20% nature. I don't know how we are going to force our ways on emerging markets like China and India. They seem to have no interest on cutting back. Energy use is pretty much proportional to GDP and their GDP's are growing like crazy.
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Old 13-08-2009, 14:46   #17
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Weīre all doomed...

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Originally Posted by sneuman View Post
Either way, we are going to need to fix the problem or the planet will "fix" us.
Almost no-one seems to ask if humans are actually capable of influencing their development as a species. I can see no evidence other than short term\small scale that homo sapiens are in any way capable of inflencing their future on a global level as a species, simply not programmed that way. Anyone over the age of 40 has seen the human populatioin more than double, any species with self control would not let itīs population expand to such plague levels in such a short time Evolution of life has always been a dynamic process, species come, species die out, why should we be any different? Actually, Iīm not anywhere near clever enough to come up with such a idea all on my own, I read it in the excellent book Straw Dogs by John Gray. Other good reads on the subject (IMHO) are Gaia by James Loveolck and A Brief History af Nearly everything by Bill Bryson. Quote from the brilliant Bill "Your digestive system alone is host to more than a hundred trillion microbes, of at least 400 types". Even in our guts we are completely reliant on other life forms and they on us.
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Old 13-08-2009, 15:03   #18
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Anyone over the age of 40 has seen the human population more than double; any species with self control would not let its population expand to such plague levels in such a short time...

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The single invention that more than any other has led to increased lifespan and productivity among humans is plumbing. If you'd like to see the biggest bang for your buck as far as ridding precious Gaia of her infestation of humans, just take away their sewer systems and watch them suffer and die of dysentery, cholera, and a host of other fecal-borne pathogens.

As for myself, I've noticed that as education and wealth reach a certain level, families find that they no longer need to have so many children, and societies find that they have enough spare resources that they can start worrying about environment protections. For that reason, I'll continue to advocate that we get as many people on Earth as possible to these conditions. Given a choice between a life of squalor and misery, and a life of comfort and security, I'm pretty sure most people would choose the latter, even if it meant spending a portion of their new-found wealth on efforts to mitigate the effects of a 2-degree warmup.

I'll miss Venice, but not enough to force billions in the developing world to stop developing.
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Old 13-08-2009, 15:38   #19
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I am afraid the only way to 'fix the problem' is by wiping ourselves out ;-(. All that human 'trying' ever leads to even more mess than before we tried.

And if we are to experience more tropical storms now then at least we have the tools to forecast / track them. And boats that go 35 apparent. We are much better off than them Medieval captains ;-)
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Old 13-08-2009, 15:56   #20
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I'll continue to advocate that we get as many people on Earth as possible to these conditions.

I'll miss Venice, but not enough to force billions in the developing world to stop developing.
I certainly donīt have any answers. Just a doubt that perhaps there are none. I really canīt see how it would ever be possilble to force billions in the developing world to stop developing. I think itīs a myth that humans are in any way different or set apart from the rest of life on the planet or in any way in control. But that wonīt stop me from enjoying the heat of the early morning sun on my face or a delicious cool breeze. I just wonīt feel so guilty.
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Old 13-08-2009, 17:43   #21
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Now what kind of sun light trapping gas did humans produce to create all that warming a 1,000 years ago?? Could it be we really aren't responsible for all this heat. Personally, give me global warming. It's a hell of a lot more pleasant than the opposite condition.

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Old 13-08-2009, 18:22   #22
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Interesting poll here Public Praises Science; Scientists Fault Public, Media: Section 5: Evolution, Climate Change and Other Issues - Pew Research Center for the People & the Press
Not that polls mean much. But given that this was a telephone poll with nothing to be gained either way maybe the scientists being asked were telling their true feelings when 84% said that they believed climate change was due to human activity. 31% of the public said that they believed humans had existed in their present form since the beginning of time... Thatīs just scarey!
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Old 13-08-2009, 21:21   #23
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Oh, carp. Not again???



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Old 13-08-2009, 22:16   #24
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Re the poll (BTW taken by a left leaning group) just because a majority of people in the poll BELIEVE that gw is caused by man DOES NOT mean it's true.

Steve B.
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Old 14-08-2009, 10:43   #25
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From July/August issue of Contingencies, digital version available at American Academy of Actuaries: Contingencies Magazine home page

"....The U.S. began systematic cataloguing of hurricanes around 1850. ..."

Following summarized from table on page 54.

Total Hurricanes
1851 - 1900 97
1901 - 1950 95
1951 - 2000 72
2001 - 2008 19
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Old 14-08-2009, 11:46   #26
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Re the poll (BTW taken by a left leaning group) just because a majority of people in the poll BELIEVE that gw is caused by man DOES NOT mean it's true.

Steve B.
No-one said it did. But neither does it disprove. But if you want to make a judgement on the matter who else do you look for for data? Certainly not the general public almost a third of whom, if the poll is to be believed, think all life just popped into existance one afternoon and hasnīt changed since. Either way, looks like there will be some changes in the next few hundred years.
Retreat of glaciers since 1850 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 14-08-2009, 11:50   #27
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Oh, carp. Not again???



That's pretty funny. Sometimes though with a big enough bat, its great fun!
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Old 27-08-2009, 21:06   #28
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Not to be a smartass, but ...

Hey conachair, you said of people like me, "That's just scarey! (sic)."

I'm a Christian, I think man-made global warming is a Leftist hoax, and being a proponent of Intelligent design, I believe people are the same now as from the beginning of time.

As far as Intelligent design goes, other proponents of ID are Francis Crick, mapper or the DNA and Nobel Prize winner for scientific achievement, Shephen Hawking, theoretical physicist, cosmologist, and expert on quantum gravity - also a proponent of ID, and neither of these men are Christians. They're just smart! Francis Crick says that Neo-Darwinian Evolution is idiotic.

So, from me, Stephen, and Francis, we would just like to tell you ... BOO!
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Old 27-08-2009, 21:35   #29
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Hawking? I am not so sure. Check out this interview:

CNN.com - Stephen Hawking Talkasia Transcript - Jul 4, 2006

including the following:

HR: To stray into matters of potential controversy, do you believe there is any such thing as "intelligent design?"

SH: There is no evidence for intelligent design. The laws of physics and chemistry, and Darwinian evolution, are sufficient to account for everything in the universe.
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Old 27-08-2009, 21:43   #30
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Hmmm. We're in the last week of August, and we're up to "D". Last year, we were at "I"ke, and 3 years ago, "K"atrina.
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