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Old 20-11-2012, 18:50   #46
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Re: Heaving-To, Do you do it?

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Not a problem, I just don't like it. The problem is the side loading on the shroud. Very unfriendly to the rig, especially the spreaders on some boats.
I imagine that if I had an SC 50--which happened to be my dream boat 25 years ago before I could afford one--I'd feel the same.
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Old 20-11-2012, 19:21   #47
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Re: Heaving-To, Do you do it?

I've always been able to heave too.. I take the boat into irons, then lock the tiller, or wheel so the boat can't sail through the eye. It will just slide off a little then try to tack again, can't because of the rudder angle.. Very comfortable in heavy seas. I'll do this at night if getting over powered or dangerous foggy conditions....Practice,Practice,and Practice some more. You really need at least 20 knts wind to get the feel....Michael..
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Old 20-11-2012, 19:46   #48
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Re: Heaving-To, Do you do it?

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We'll heave to before putting in a reef just because it's a more gentle way to get things done than flogging head-to-wind.
We use it a lot, and as Bash says 'a more gentle way to get things done"

We'll heave to for meal preparations and dining... it's just a nice break.
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Old 20-11-2012, 19:52   #49
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Re: Heaving-To, Do you do it?

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I don't heave to. I don't like it. I certainly know how to do it, and have done it. First, I don't like the side load the headsail sheet puts on the shroud (in a blow). Second, I don't like becoming unmaneuverable.

Reefing is trivial while sailing to weather. I would rather be maneuverable when avoiding a ship.

Have done it very briefly to lower a headsail onto the foredeck. But not long enough for the boat to stop.

Fin keel boats heave-to just fine. But a fast one will still be moving forward downwind at significant speed.

Broad reaching under shortened sail is my preference. When that gets unreasonable a series drogue.
You are free to sail as you please, however, I would like to know how many hurricanes or typhoons you have survived this way? Properly done it LESSENS all the loads on the entire rig. Just my obseravations - I could be wrong, but I'm not...
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Old 20-11-2012, 20:21   #50
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Re: Heaving-To, Do you do it?

I was taught how to heave-to as a teenager sailing Albacores, and I've always been able to do it with the handful of boats I've sailed, including our current fractional rig.

Like any technique, it should first be practiced in controlled conditions so that you already know how to do it, for when you really need it. We often heave-to to grab lunch, and as mentioned it's a good position for putting in a reef in the mainsail.
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Old 20-11-2012, 21:09   #51
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Re: Heaving-To, Do you do it?

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Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
I was taught how to heave-to as a teenager sailing Albacores, and I've always been able to do it with the handful of boats I've sailed, including our current fractional rig.

Like any technique, it should first be practiced in controlled conditions so that you already know how to do it, for when you really need it. We often heave-to to grab lunch, and as mentioned it's a good position for putting in a reef in the mainsail.
+1. Thanks.
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Old 20-11-2012, 21:27   #52
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Re: Heaving-To, Do you do it?

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You are free to sail as you please, however, I would like to know how many hurricanes or typhoons you have survived this way? Properly done it LESSENS all the loads on the entire rig. Just my obseravations - I could be wrong, but I'm not...
I have not survived any typhoons or hurricanes. My backup plan for such an unlikely event is to follow the experience of others in the use of the series drogue with storm sails in drawing trim. Sailing fast in the (relatively) safe quadrant of the TRS. Definitely not hove-to with backed sails. My primary plan for a typhoon is to watch the boat blow off her moorings while sitting in a yacht club bar.
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Old 20-11-2012, 21:38   #53
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Originally Posted by daddle
. My primary plan for a typhoon is to watch the boat blow off her moorings while sitting in a yacht club bar.
+1. I'll take pictures on the iPhone of your boat dragging into mine for our insurance agents. You can buy the next round.
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Old 20-11-2012, 21:42   #54
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Re: Heaving-To, Do you do it?

I don't think it's realistic to plan on carrying sail in the windiest zones associated with a full-on typhoon or hurricane, especially hove to.

Very large vessels with very strongly made, very small stormsails might get away with it, I suppose.
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Old 20-11-2012, 22:21   #55
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Re: Heaving-To, Do you do it?

We heave-to fairly often. The two biggest causes are dinner time while cold weather sailing (gives the helmsman a chance to get below and eat a warm meal with everyone else) and heavy weather when our destination is to windward.

For dinner it's just nice to have a chance to take your hands out of gloves, eat dinner while it's warm, and enjoy a little company for a few minutes. Tropical sailing we just all eat in the cockpit, but when it's cold outside the food doesn't stay hot very long.

In heavy weather non-tropical storms we heave-to when where we want to go is upwind in the storm. We've done this up to 55-60K of breeze and find it pretty reliable. We could quibble about terms, we heave-to with a double-reefed main (or occasionally the trisail) and staysail (or storm jib) backwinded. We generally point about 50 degrees off the breeze, sometimes a little higher, generally no lower. Depending on how we trim we can drift sideways and see a slick or forereach and make about a knot to windward. Is that forereaching? We have the headsail backwinded, which seems to be the definition of hove-to, but make distance to windward, which seems to be described as fore-reaching. Either way we find it a good way to get calmer conditions, limit lost distance, and rest the crew. Usually the wave train isn't quite identical to wind direction, so we choose the tack that will point us more directly into the waves (absent other considerations such as nearby land, etc.).

We've also been through two tropical storms at sea. Our experience is that heaving-to doesn't work nearly as well in rotating storms. This is because you don't have a single wave train, so you can't keep the boat pointed into the wave train. During one of those two fine events we had three distinct wave trains at the same time, and the sea state was more like 15-20 foot chop than swells and wind waves. In those conditions it was impossible to get the boat to stay balanced and we ended up forereaching with someone at the helm for the entire time, trying to choose the most comfortable course for the moment.
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Old 20-11-2012, 22:24   #56
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Re: Heaving-To, Do you do it?

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Originally Posted by Dsanduril View Post
We heave-to fairly often. The two biggest causes are dinner time while cold weather sailing (gives the helmsman a chance to get below and eat a warm meal with everyone else) and heavy weather when our destination is to windward.

For dinner it's just nice to have a chance to take your hands out of gloves, eat dinner while it's warm, and enjoy a little company for a few minutes. Tropical sailing we just all eat in the cockpit, but when it's cold outside the food doesn't stay hot very long.

In heavy weather non-tropical storms we heave-to when where we want to go is upwind in the storm. We've done this up to 55-60K of breeze and find it pretty reliable. We could quibble about terms, we heave-to with a double-reefed main (or occasionally the trisail) and staysail (or storm jib) backwinded. We generally point about 50 degrees off the breeze, sometimes a little higher, generally no lower. Depending on how we trim we can drift sideways and see a slick or forereach and make about a knot to windward. Is that forereaching? We have the headsail backwinded, which seems to be the definition of hove-to, but make distance to windward, which seems to be described as fore-reaching. Either way we find it a good way to get calmer conditions, limit lost distance, and rest the crew. Usually the wave train isn't quite identical to wind direction, so we choose the tack that will point us more directly into the waves (absent other considerations such as nearby land, etc.).

We've also been through two tropical storms at sea. Our experience is that heaving-to doesn't work nearly as well in rotating storms. This is because you don't have a single wave train, so you can't keep the boat pointed into the wave train. During one of those two fine events we had three distinct wave trains at the same time, and the sea state was more like 15-20 foot chop than swells and wind waves. In those conditions it was impossible to get the boat to stay balanced and we ended up forereaching with someone at the helm for the entire time, trying to choose the most comfortable course for the moment.
Great post!
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Old 21-11-2012, 02:51   #57
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I don't see the need to even heave to @ 10-15' unless a wind over current situation, this swell size would be very routine on a given passage. Force 10 and even extended force 9 over long fetch will quickly produce 10-15m conditions, I assume this is what you meant?

It isn't the size really that would warrant shifting from heaving to parachute or whatever your weather strategy was, but the change in the state of the waves from swells to white water to breaking that forces a rethink.
(Not so) Foolish Sailor, thanks sometimes I still think in kayak size waves. I've played in 5 foot swells off the coast of FL in my 33 and want to slowly move up from there in a controlled situation before venturing offshore.

This thread reinforces the fact that certain skills can be learned in benign conditions, but really need to be mastered in real-world ugly conditions.

Bill
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Old 21-11-2012, 05:47   #58
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Re: Heaving-To, Do you do it?

I look at heaving to as general boat handling. What we are discussing is the balance between headway and leeway. Perfect Hove to would be 100% leeway and zero headway, right. I see it as just another skill, knowledge of ones boat and how it handles. Who wouldn't want to learn more about their boat. I have never seen a sail boat that would not heave to. Some do it more naturally than others.

Count me as one who believes in it as a storm tactic as well.
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Old 21-11-2012, 06:00   #59
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Re: Heaving-To, Do you do it?

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Count me as one who believes in it as a storm tactic as well
of course the outcome of theory and the sea is well known.!!


I have never seen conditions suitable for Heaving to that I couldnt actually sail in, Yes its useful for the tea-break....
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Old 21-11-2012, 06:29   #60
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+1 agreed
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