Another Keel Lost; Another Capsize

[Fore and Aft]

I’m hearing you EL Pinguino. I have surveyed some of those cheap boats behind houses here in Gympie......
I think the only thing they did wrong was their lack of transparency in what they were doing. Good luck to them I say, talk about making lemonade out of lemons.
I have been thinking about replicating their stunt. Surely with a couple of cute kids instead of a dog I should get better returns internet begging. I might even employ a PR person to put the best spin on it. This could be the first holiday we’re I turn a profit and get a nice yacht to sail home to Oz for a buck!
Cheers

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by sailingunity

The comment in the story says Walsh nearly flew off the deck, I would say they were coming in a bit more quickly than that!

I don't trust my life to keel bolts, no matter how new.

I confess to hitting unmoveable underwater objects in both of my two last boats. In a Cal29 we hit an unmarked underwater obstruction near the entrance to the Emeryville Marina, coming into the channel at full (6 knots) speed. Rumor has it that there was perhaps some debris left over from a construction or dredging project A crew member was pitched over the foredeck pulpit, and managed to just hang on to that rail, dangling completely off the boat. The shock was not soft, it was a very hard hit.

In my Morgan 46 I was intent on sightseeing and didn't realize that a red buoy close to shore near the Richmond bridge, actually marks not the usual muddy shallow bottom here, but it marks an underwater rock and there was a negative tide level at the time. Again, very very hard hit. Probably going at least 5 knots at the time.

So, what happened? Because I have always refused to consider buying any boat with a bolt-on keel, both these vessels have fully encapsulated ballast. As a result, neither boat suffered any more than cosmetic damage, easily repaired during the next routine haulout.

My sympathies to anyone's loss as a result of hitting underwater objects, but it does happen even to so-called experienced sailors. This being the case, don't think it will never happen to you, and consider the strength and design features of the vessel you choose to trust your life to.

[BlackHeron]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

I think the only thing they did wrong was their lack of transparency in what they were doing. Good luck to them I say, talk about making lemonade out of lemons.

I don't know. They said at first that they needed to raise money to pay for salvaging and removing the boat. They raised more than enough for that and then started raising money for a new boat. They might not have made that very clear right away and after they changed the focus, but the people who gave money at first gave to help remove the boat. Later on they told people they were raising money to help buy a new boat and gear. They did that too.

What is really the big deal here? IMHO I don't think anyone really got "ripped off" in their donations to them. Maybe they could have started a whole new donation page for the boat but then none of the previous links would have worked.

[Sailorbob8599]

Originally Posted by TreblePlink

"Who the hell leaves on ANY extended trip with only $90?"

Let's be fair; they were on a short sail to anchor for the night. They say their plans were to sail to Key West and work for a while to stockpile money before leaving.

"Who the hell leaves on ANY extended trip with only $90?"you ask? For starters, my wife and I left our home in England/Ireland and paid our own fares to Canada on 'Holland America's S.S. Ryndam'. We experienced two major north Atlantic storms during the voyage; the 'Ryndam' was the smallest passenger liner plying the North Atlantic that February of 1958. We treated the seven day voyage as our delayed honeymoon, because we were unable to afford one at the time of our marriage; and because we paid our own way, we were assigned to the First Mate's table for dinner; quite an honour in those days. My wife was just 23, whilst I celebrated my 25th on the day we disembarked. Arriving in Halifax, NS, we travelled by train to Ottawa, arriving 2am the following day with exactly $90 Canadian money remaining between the two of us.
We had no jobs, and no prospects. We knew of only one person ... an old school friend of my father-in-law who generously provided us food and accommodations for a short period of time; I found a job the following week, and we rented a basement apartment the week after that. It was a big struggle for us at the time, but we have never looked back.

I should mention the majority of immigrants travelled with Government loans or even paid in full by the Government. We have always paid our own way, as we did for our travels to "the new country"; we do not begrudge younger folk today who have created this new way to help them achieve their goals. Yes, it's called 'Go Fund Me' and it helps not only the young people, but quite a few older folk who have run into bad luck.

With regard to the young couple under discussion, maybe the act of donating an old Cheoy Lee did the Doctor a favour. He was past his sailing days and was only hanging on to it as a 'keepsake' by the sound of it; he realised it was time to dispose of it and likely discovered it was going to be very costly to get rid of it one way or another. Donating it to this young couple gave him a sense of "feel good" because, he will sail along with them in his dreams. I would imagine if they do go cruising, they will keep him informed of their travels. Good luck to them, I hope they realise their dream.

There are people in this world who would rather donate a boat to what they see as a worthy cause rather than sell to some miserly old fart who is unwilling to pay a fair asking price for their dream boat. I happen to be just one of those people.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by waterman46

I don't trust my life to keel bolts, no matter how new.



I confess to hitting unmoveable underwater objects in both of my two last boats. In a Cal29 we hit an unmarked underwater obstruction near the entrance to the Emeryville Marina, coming into the channel at full (6 knots) speed. Rumor has it that there was perhaps some debris left over from a construction or dredging project A crew member was pitched over the foredeck pulpit, and managed to just hang on to that rail, dangling completely off the boat. The shock was not soft, it was a very hard hit.



In my Morgan 46 I was intent on sightseeing and didn't realize that a red buoy close to shore near the Richmond bridge, actually marks not the usual muddy shallow bottom here, but it marks an underwater rock and there was a negative tide level at the time. Again, very very hard hit. Probably going at least 5 knots at the time.



So, what happened? Because I have always refused to consider buying any boat with a bolt-on keel, both these vessels have fully encapsulated ballast. As a result, neither boat suffered any more than cosmetic damage, easily repaired during the next routine haulout.



My sympathies to anyone's loss as a result of hitting underwater objects, but it does happen even to so-called experienced sailors. This being the case, don't think it will never happen to you, and consider the strength and design features of the vessel you choose to trust your life to.

Sure, but as a counterpoint good cruising designs with lower aspect keels like yours have an advantage to bolt on; the lead is very absorbent of impact and there isn’t the risk of breach of outer laminate with resultant water ingress. There are countless stories of water logged, rusting, swelling encapsulated ballast due to this.
For example, the Hinckley B40(a full keel design)has external bolted ballast for this reason and I believe they touted this as an advantage in Maine. Hit a rock and a few whacks of sledgehammer and some fairing compound and you’re good to go.
The issue is high aspect, poorly supported keels with shoddy workmanship or build engineering.

[achil]

Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599

"Who the hell leaves on ANY extended trip with only $90?"you ask? For starters, my wife and I left our home in England/Ireland and paid our own fares to Canada on 'Holland America's S.S. Ryndam'. We experienced two major north Atlantic storms during the voyage; the 'Ryndam' was the smallest passenger liner plying the North Atlantic that February of 1958. We treated the seven day voyage as our delayed honeymoon, because we were unable to afford one at the time of our marriage; and because we paid our own way, we were assigned to the First Mate's table for dinner; quite an honour in those days. My wife was just 23, whilst I celebrated my 25th on the day we disembarked. Arriving in Halifax, NS, we travelled by train to Ottawa, arriving 2am the following day with exactly $90 Canadian money remaining between the two of us.

Bob, like you I also immigrated on my own buck, first from Ireland to London, England and then to the US. Everything I had was in one small suitcase not much larger than a carry-on. I got to tell you though, $90. in the '50's doesn't come close to comparing to $90. today. Mid '60's in Ireland you could buy-in a pub-8 pints of Guinness for 1 Irish Pound. They don't have Pounds in Ireland anymore, but in London, England you won't get much change out of a fiver. Here in the US, at least where I am from, most people make more than that for a day's wages. How much could you buy for $90. in '58?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599

"Who the hell leaves on ANY extended trip with only $90?"you ask? For starters, my wife and I left our home in England/Ireland and paid our own fares to Canada on 'Holland America's S.S. Ryndam'. We experienced two major north Atlantic storms during the voyage; the 'Ryndam' was the smallest passenger liner plying the North Atlantic that February of 1958. We treated the seven day voyage as our delayed honeymoon, because we were unable to afford one at the time of our marriage; and because we paid our own way, we were assigned to the First Mate's table for dinner; quite an honour in those days. My wife was just 23, whilst I celebrated my 25th on the day we disembarked. Arriving in Halifax, NS, we travelled by train to Ottawa, arriving 2am the following day with exactly $90 Canadian money remaining between the two of us.
We had no jobs, and no prospects. We knew of only one person ... an old school friend of my father-in-law who generously provided us food and accommodations for a short period of time; I found a job the following week, and we rented a basement apartment the week after that. It was a big struggle for us at the time, but we have never looked back.

I should mention the majority of immigrants travelled with Government loans or even paid in full by the Government. We have always paid our own way, as we did for our travels to "the new country"; we do not begrudge younger folk today who have created this new way to help them achieve their goals. Yes, it's called 'Go Fund Me' and it helps not only the young people, but quite a few older folk who have run into bad luck.

With regard to the young couple under discussion, maybe the act of donating an old Cheoy Lee did the Doctor a favour. He was past his sailing days and was only hanging on to it as a 'keepsake' by the sound of it; he realised it was time to dispose of it and likely discovered it was going to be very costly to get rid of it one way or another. Donating it to this young couple gave him a sense of "feel good" because, he will sail along with them in his dreams. I would imagine if they do go cruising, they will keep him informed of their travels. Good luck to them, I hope they realise their dream.

There are people in this world who would rather donate a boat to what they see as a worthy cause rather than sell to some miserly old fart who is unwilling to pay a fair asking price for their dream boat. I happen to be just one of those people.

https://www.dollartimes.com/inflatio...t=90&year=1958
$90.00 in 1958 had the same buying power as $781.24 in 2018.
that's USD

[cyan]

Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599

There are people in this world who would rather donate a boat to what they see as a worthy cause rather than sell to some miserly old fart who is unwilling to pay a fair asking price for their dream boat. I happen to be just one of those people.

I'm with you, Bob. There was an 80 year old professor in San Diego, California that gave his Cal 40 to a young lady bartender (Liz Clark) asking only a promise that she she would take it on an adventure. She sailed 25,000 nm, mostly solo with it, surfing and exploring the world. Some of us fall in love with our boats, and this just feels right near the end, somehow...

https://swellvoyage.com/

Liz Clark spends 10 YEARS sailing the world after generous benefactor gave her a yacht | Daily Mail Online

[james247]

Originally Posted by TreblePlink

It appears to me that the current mishap was caused by the captain seeing that the #3 Green marker was not in line with the other Greens, was not on the port side of the cut, and there was no Red marker to starboard of G3. He guessed the buoy had unintentionally moved, and proceeded to Port of it.


Primarily due to concealed underwater obstructions, marine navigation can be more complex than aviation. I just wish there was ONE authoritative and timely clearinghouse for "local knowledge"

So are we following the Redha and greenies or electronics. Why not use both. When there is a contradiction in the dark STOP and anchor up. Then in the morning look and get on the radio for local advice.
Is there a rush.

[thruska]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

Keel inspection centers?!?! Puleeze......

Keep the government “helpers” away.

Exactly! engineers, insurance execs, and government in bed together can only entail disaster and more hands in YOUR pockets with nothing to show for it but mt pockets and more bumbling stupidity..
Yeah that’s my opinion and I’m sticking to it.
Insurance companies and governments should not interbreed, lol.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by thruska

Exactly! engineers, insurance execs, and government in bed together can only entail disaster and more hands in YOUR pockets with nothing to show for it but mt pockets and more bumbling stupidity..

Yeah that’s my opinion and I’m sticking to it.

Insurance companies and governments should not interbreed, lol.

+1
But, for the record, engineers do not typically suffer from the same suspicious motivation as the other bed partners mentioned.

[thruska]

Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599

And the way I read it, Moore the salvage contractor gave them a very generous 50% discount on the salvage job. So even that suggests there are empathetic folk even in the industry. As for the gift of a larger boat, I can only feel happy for them. Just hope we don't hear of another disaster happening to them.
As for all the old farts on this forum who are still angry over the whole affair, I think most of it is pure jealousy simply because it didn't happen to them. My advice to them is, go buy a lottery ticket, maybe you'll have more luck with that.

I say be careful how you bundle all the old farts on this forum. You lack wisdom and insight in your stereotypical remarks.
Since when do you have to buy a Lottery ticket to hit the jackpot? We got you without a ticket purchase.

[thruska]

Originally Posted by alaskaflyfish

What business is it of yours concerning what people consider a worthy cause for donation? You sound like your virtue signaling by prioritizing causes. People donate to whom/what they have the pleasure to donate.

Hahaha, and your comment would allow anyone to ask the same of you....
Lots of finger pointing here, and now I’m pointing at you lmao.

[surf_sail]

Originally Posted by thruska

Hahaha, and your comment would allow anyone to ask the same of you....

Lots of finger pointing here, and now I’m pointing at you lmao.

Slightly off topic now. But we should actually have an opinion on what is a good versus a bad charitable donation - especially when the government subsidies them (technically not in this case since gofundme isn't a tax deductible donation).

Inefficient use of charitable donations is a serious issue. See below if you want to get riled up:

http://revisionisthistory.com/episod...undred-million

http://revisionisthistory.com/episodes/05-food-fight

[newhaul]

Now I feel that this thread has gone about as far is it is going to without going down some rabbit hole or another.