Another Keel Lost; Another Capsize

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by surf_sail

Treble, thanks for sticking to the subject and providing the facts. I love how most on here are complaining that the two didn't know their stuff, but will gladly comment without getting the facts straight or staying on topic.

Facts? Who needs facts?! Unfortunately the original article was not entirely filled with information and it made it seem like they were heading out to go to the Caribbean and then the world with virtually nothing. Only after reading a number of follow up interviews and articles did we find out that their plan wasn't quite as initially presented.

[surf_sail]

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

Facts? Who needs facts?! Unfortunately the original article was not entirely filled with information and it made it seem like they were heading out to go to the Caribbean and then the world with virtually nothing. Only after reading a number of follow up interviews and articles did we find out that their plan wasn't quite as initially presented.

True. But all of the facts were discussed on here.

[hellosailor]

Who the hell leaves on an extended trip with only $90?
Someone who has only $90 and plans to bus tables or find other day work to pay along the way. Plenty of folks hitch hiked across Europe that way, back when you were allowed to stay longer and no one was as obsessive about "working papers". The difference is, they weren't carrying a couple of thousand pounds of mobile home with them, and if they were, there would have been insurance requirements. (If your car slides off an alpine pass, catches fire and burns, just who does pay for wreck removal anyway? It would be most un-Swiss to allow that litter to clutter the view.)

"In aviation, what do you do when a mountain is permanently shrouded in clouds and shifts in both height and position after every storm?"
Why, don't the FAA do the same thing that NOAA and the USN does? Send to big ships and a wire drag to clear it out of the way, and send back a team full of explosive charges if that's not enough? "That mountain is just too damned high!" "Don't worry, friend, we can fix that!"

Batch of slackers somewhere...they just don't bother clearing peaks the same way sailors get things done?

(WEG)

[sailorcherry]

I did not say or imply that. Don't put words in my mouth, you won't like what gets spewed back out at ya pal.

Originally Posted by surf_sail

What?

You can't learn about keel bolts from google, only from books? In Gutenberg's days would you have complained about reading from printed books versus handwritten scrolls?

Little FYI, beyond cat memes the internet also contains basically a vast majority of the world's information from all medical journals to believe it or not probably the world's best sources for marine maintenance... don't blame google, blame the idiots that can't use it...

[surf_sail]

Originally Posted by sailorcherry

You partly have to blame the whole Google age - why pick up a book to learn how to or look at what broke to see if you can figure out how to fix it when it's waaaay easier and much faster to ask Google (or YouTube)?

You didn't say one should use a book instead of the google thing? Ok.

[hellosailor]

The web has its place, but an authored, edited, curated book about a topic (like, the structure of boat hulls) is less likely to have critical omissions. Like mentioning keel bolts. Or why stainless steel parts fail. Or perhaps, why teak-and-holly floorboards are better than carpet tiles.

The web is also infamous for being spotty about anything pre-1995. Nagasaki bomb? Sure, that makes it. Kent State? Yeah, you'll find it. Now, try to find out anything about spring of '73, when the Commonwealth of Massachusetts tried an end run around the federal government, declaring that they were mustering their entire militia, and would therefore require all of their men to be released from the draft and brought home at once. Yes, it went to the US Supreme Court. Try to find it.

The web can be a very disorderly space.

[surf_sail]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

The web has its place, but an authored, edited, curated book about a topic (like, the structure of boat hulls) is less likely to have critical omissions. Like mentioning keel bolts. Or why stainless steel parts fail. Or perhaps, why teak-and-holly floorboards are better than carpet tiles.



The web is also infamous for being spotty about anything pre-1995. Nagasaki bomb? Sure, that makes it. Kent State? Yeah, you'll find it. Now, try to find out anything about spring of '73, when the Commonwealth of Massachusetts tried an end run around the federal government, declaring that they were mustering their entire militia, and would therefore require all of their men to be released from the draft and brought home at once. Yes, it went to the US Supreme Court. Try to find it.



The web can be a very disorderly space.

Yes. Books 1, Web 0.

https://books.google.com/

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by surf_sail

You didn't say one should use a book instead of the google thing? Ok.

From the various articles and interviews it would appear that they did spend some time outfitting their boat but so far I haven't seen any details of what they did or what they contracted out, nor how they determined what had to be done. Without know what they did and why, we really can't comment on whether the Internet contributed to this or whether a book would have helped them avoid the keel from coming off.

Having said this, I think you may have misinterpreted what he was saying. Certainly you can get a LOT of information from the Internet. The issue is that unless you know what to look for, the Internet may not give you what you need due to the algorithms they use. If you search for a general subject such as sailing, you will generally get nice videos on boats sailing, generic articles such as those from Wikipedia, and sailing schools. Similar things happen on YouTube. The algorithms are geared to give you more of what you like which naturally discourages exploration of different subjects.

If you buy the right book such as Don Casey's or Nigel Calder's books, you get an organized discussion of boat maintenance and repairs which is less likely to let you miss something. In some ways it is like working off of a checklist versus doing something randomly.

[surf_sail]

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

The issue is that unless you know what to look for, the Internet may not give you what you need due to the algorithms they use.

If you buy the right book .

Sorry I still don't see the point. If you know how to use google you're ok? If you know how to find the right book, you're ok?

I just don't see why one would even bring up the problems with google in this discussion. If they're not bright enough to find the info on google they're not bright enough to go to the library, use the non-existent card catalog and find the right book. I guess one could just google to find/buy the book you need - but then is that using google or books?? I guess I'm just a confused Millennial in a pointless discussion.

[boatman61]

I'm a Luddite.. I just go to the bookstore and look in the Hobbies and Recreations section.. and buy what I want.. if not there I order it.
But then I'm in favour of local shops so I don't use Amazon..
As for Google.. who needs it.. lots of Sailing magazines at newsagents give one tons of info on books covering every aspect of sailing.. for Luddites.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

The web has its place, but an authored, edited, curated book about a topic (like, the structure of boat hulls) is less likely to have critical omissions. Like mentioning keel bolts. Or why stainless steel parts fail. Or perhaps, why teak-and-holly floorboards are better than carpet tiles.

The web is also infamous for being spotty about anything pre-1995. Nagasaki bomb? Sure, that makes it. Kent State? Yeah, you'll find it. Now, try to find out anything about spring of '73, when the Commonwealth of Massachusetts tried an end run around the federal government, declaring that they were mustering their entire militia, and would therefore require all of their men to be released from the draft and brought home at once. Yes, it went to the US Supreme Court. Try to find it.

The web can be a very disorderly space.

I've come across plenty of books that are poorly sourced and sometimes downright wrong. The danger is because someone got a publisher to accept it, people take it as truth.

Yeah, finding out about the 1973 political games might take 10 minutes to find on the web....I'd have no idea where to even start to find a book about it.

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by surf_sail

Sorry I still don't see the point.

I just don't see why one would even bring up the problems with google in this discussion.

You are correct that this is off topic. As I mentioned, without knowing what they did and why, there is no point on discussing the merits of books versus using a search engine.

The point that you missed was that with a book, whether an e-book or a hard copy, is the book is 'edited and curated about a topic (like, the structure of boat hulls) and is less likely to have critical omissions.' (With thanks to HelloSailor). An Internet search is disorganized and may well allow for critical omissions.

You are also correct in wondering how you would find the best books and sources. Others here have pointed out that you need experience and/or someone who has the experience and knowledge. It seems they had neither.

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I've come across plenty of books that are poorly sourced and sometimes downright wrong. The danger is because someone got a publisher to accept it, people take it as truth.

Yeah, finding out about the 1973 political games might take 10 minutes to find on the web....I'd have no idea where to even start to find a book about it.

This is true, however we must remember that is true whether the book is an e-book or a hard/coft cover book. This is also true for websites. As one of our presidents said, "Trust, but verify!"

[surf_sail]

So back to the thread. Any activity on getting this boat out of the channel?

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by surf_sail

So back to the thread. Any activity on getting this boat out of the channel?

Nothing on GoFundMe in the last six days. I also checked on Facebook and can't find a page for them either. Roughly two days ago I found a page for Tanner and messaged him but I have not heard back from him. GIven that they lost everything it is possible that they are rather overwhelmed and/or don't yet have regular access to the Internet. Time will tell whether my giving the benefit of the doubt was justified or not.