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Old 06-12-2008, 18:35   #1
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Thumbs up New to your world

After many years on Cats , sailing bays and lakes, I am a recent implant to West Virginia. With very few days of sailing mono-hulls, I now find a strange feeling moving through me... "I like em" ! ( my last trip of four days was on a Columbia 30 Sport) At 65 years young, it seems staying dry,warm, and moving a bit slower, enjoyable.

I started a basic sailing school here in West Virginia (perhaps the only one...lol) To date we have graduated five youngsters on a 8' pram and 15' Sea Sprays. I want to move forward with a larger rig. We are looking at three boats. Laguna 22, Catalina 22, and a McGrager 21. (all are available for $3,000 or less w/trailers)

In general and with cost in mind, your thoughts on these boats as teaching platforms would be very much appriciated. Any other trailerable boat considerations are more then welcome.

bob
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Old 07-12-2008, 06:59   #2
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Hi, Bob. Welcome to Cruisers Forum!

Teaching kids to sail is a noble cause. I was involved with Junior Sailing at our former yacht club, and it was a very rewarding experience.

I can't comment on the boats you mentioned, but having owned an ODay 222 (probably more similar to the Catalina), I think a boat of that ilk would provide a great platform for teaching sailing in a larger boat.
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Old 07-12-2008, 10:18   #3
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Hud3, thank you for kind reply.
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Old 07-12-2008, 15:06   #4
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Aloha Bob,
Welcome aboard! Our club teaches kids on anything we can get to float. Our fleet consists mostly of Sunfish but we have a few Walker Bay 10s. As a step up we've done some instruction on Flying Juniors and a West Wight Potter 19. If I were you I would go for the Catalina but only because I owned one many years ago and appreciated the quality and stability. I've not sailed the others you mentioned.
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Old 07-12-2008, 15:44   #5
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Thanks John... I was born in Queens Hospt. and left Honolulu at age 15. Took my wife to see my old place at Makaha in 2001. Not the same, but still wonderful.

Thanks again for your reply

bob
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Old 08-12-2008, 11:30   #6
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small keelboats for teaching kids

I run a sailing school for adults and volunteer with US SAILING in the youth training field. We use J24s but they are probably more than you need for your program. The Catalina 22 will be a little easier to keep up and repair than the others and will probably hold resale better as well. good, basic boat for teaching in especially if your program is on a tight budget. Keep in mind that once they are reasonably confident on the water, kids will gravitate toward exciting types of sailing and the Catalina may get a little 'pedestrian' for them. At some point, if you can find a slightly more complicated boat, J22, Santana 525, J24, you can keep the kids learning. These boats will sell from $3000 to $8000 in useable shape. There are some really good small 'sport' keelboats out there new, Ideal 18, for instance. But the prices are higher, of course.
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Old 08-12-2008, 15:27   #7
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RM, your reply is much appreciated. I miss sailing on the bay... no other venue I have found offers its unique condisions. Perhaps we may know some of the same folks.
Jay Gardner ("Adventure Cat" 65' @ pier 39) (Phil Degaue, Hunter 36 @ Alameda) Kam Richards, Pinapple Sails Alameda. Mike Heath, 44' French sloop at Alameda was teaching nav. for West Marine I believe before he stated his blue water trip south to points unknown.

You are on the spot with respect to funds. All monies to date are coming from my personel account. (hope to add a few hundred by selling off my extra catamaran hulls,castings,sails, and one complete boat. even took a flyer on Citi stock at 3.25, today its at 8... almost enought for a nice c-22 ....lol (stop loss at 7.25)

I have found a 83' Laguna 22 w/trailer for $2,800. and a 82' C-22 DK w/trailer ( trailer will need some work) for $3,000. both are asking prices and are some 5 hrs. from here. any thoughts ?

I did ask the following of the sellers:

1. when sailed last
2. cond. of jel coat and bottom
3. any soft spots
4. cond. and inventory of sails

Hope I'm not missing too much, still, sellers tend to be on the positive side of these questions..

thanks, bob
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Old 08-12-2008, 16:53   #8
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Right. I know of Jay Gardner and know Kame well. He does his famous Tides and Currents lecture here on occasion.. Don't know Phil or Mike, unfortunately, but great to hear you had a good experience ofThe Bay.

Certainly there are common questions to ask about each of the boats and a Laguna in great shape is still better than a Catalina that is a beater.

And, for training, might you put bottom paint on this boat and leave her in the water for the season? if so, ask yourself the value of the trailer to you...

Definitely want to ask about gelcoat, soft spots, whether she's been grounded hard or in a collision, how often the boat has been sailed, condition of the standing rigging (age - usually shrouds and stays are not replaced on these boats anywhere near as often as they should), condition of sails, for sure, condition of any auxiliary outboard engine, if the boat has a swing keel, whether the pivot pin has been serviced/replaced or the lifting cable or if there are leaks around the trunk.....if she's fixed keel, whether there are any leaks from the keelbolts.

given they are five hours away, the sellers might be willing to take 10-20 close up digital photos of the key areas to help you decide whether it is even worth the trip.. The photos can't be the only evidence (a thorough in person inspection will still be necessary) but might save you a trip if the boat has lots of stress marks around chain plates, bow pulpits, rudder/tiller connection, lots of rust on the keel or swing keel, generally looks unkempt, etc.

All this said, however, for $2800-3000 asking price, while it will be good to know what you are in for, lots of the above will be less than perfect. If everything I mentioned above was in great shape, you might pay double for the boat.

Hope this helps!
RMJ
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Old 08-12-2008, 17:37   #9
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The Mac21 was my first boat and my fondest memories sailing..It would be very safe for your students as they are hard to knock down but I echo whats been said about the "pedestrian pace" and for some their desire to want a more spirited boat after a while..but this is sailing 101-102 right?..they can get on the foiling moth @ 103..

I would personally feel very confidant in students venturing out on there own in the Mack 21

Oh.... and welcome to our world..
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Old 08-12-2008, 19:52   #10
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you folks are great !

Frankly, I visited many sailing sites before I came upon this one. It was the tone of the replies that caused me to stop and register.. I hope to follow up with you all as we move forward. For you that took the time, I will keep you in the loop with what we get (new trainer) and its effect with the kids.. We start again in early May with five more students.

BTW, I added pic's to this site... don't laugh, its a WV. hillbilly start I know, but a start just the same.

bob
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Old 09-12-2008, 02:44   #11
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Hi Bob and welcome to CruisersForum.

I've sailed the Catalina 22 quite a bit. Easy docile and good handling for the ones I've sailed with 100% jibs.

Sailed out of San Diego and Marina Del Ray. If I had one I'd get a 135% genny at least to make life a little more exciting.

I also race J24s and they are conducive to racing and are not that comfortable. Basically there is nothing to lean back on so after 4 hours or so you are dying for something to rest on. Not a factor when racing.

Here is a shot of my brother at the tiller in the cockpit of a 22 with his friend and a shot forward. I like the main traveller at the back of the boat. I was sheeting jib from the companionway.
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Old 09-12-2008, 06:45   #12
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Dan, is that a "IN-N-OUT" buger in his hand ? I miss them !

Thanks, now to find a good one that I can afford. It may be that someone on this forum will have or know of a nice C-22 near our location.

bob
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Old 09-12-2008, 07:55   #13
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Soapysails,

I use to go out on Adventure cat for several years on my birthday. Birthday people were free, but we always brought along 10, or more people. This is before the new cat. In 92 Hanse knew I was leaving for Mexico, so he let me drive Adventure in from the Gate down to Pier39, and across to Angel Island. I had read about cats for a while in Lat38, but after doing 18 1/2 knots across Alcatraz. A cat became a dream.

BEST WISHES in living on the east coast.....i2f
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Old 09-12-2008, 08:08   #14
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The last time I saw Hanse,(Jay was with us too) he was talking about Mexico. About 12 of us from the MHRA went out to whale watch and party big time !.. great day with good friends.

I see your pictures, your dreams came true, good for you mate.. thanks for your comments.

bob
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Old 10-12-2008, 19:48   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soapysails View Post
Dan, is that a "IN-N-OUT" buger in his hand ? I miss them !
mmmmmm.... Buuuuurgerrrrrrrrssss! In-n-Out Rocks.

I think those were Quiznos or subway or something we picked up on the way to the boat.

That was out of Marina Del Ray last July.

PS - Don't knock the Dinghy in the cowpond! There are places in the world that don't even have cows - Ha, ha...
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