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Old 03-01-2016, 15:46   #1051
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Don't be so touchy. One innocent pun and two attacks.
No...not touchy at all....they were just the type of response I expected and counted on actually. The fun part is being able to predict them so well along with why they are being made. It's almost bringing me back to my experimental sociology lab class.
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Old 03-01-2016, 15:47   #1052
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Boy, was that ever well-timed to the current thread discussion. You must have planned it. It's short -- think L-E might actually read it?
Still mad at me?

I did read it.

To really prove that you've got my number, please list out what/how you think I'd respond to it.
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Old 03-01-2016, 15:50   #1053
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

A little message from us "alliterate" Neaderthals to those worried about global warming....
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Old 03-01-2016, 16:03   #1054
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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In the scientific community these discussions are nearly completely absent b/c the research is clear. Meanwhile in the popular media we continue to have these discussions. Thanks for showing the connection .
I guess you also don't know that I WAS in the scientific community you hold in such high regard..ha ha ha....presenting papers on pollution control at the conferences, dong research, filing Patents, doing CO2 testing at Coal fired power plants...ha ha ha. Have you ever measured CO2 and other pollutants from Power plants around the US? Na....but you did stay at a Holiday Inn Select once. (I call that line damn funny...you can call it ridicule if you don't have a sense of humor)

Mike, I know this thread is long but I can't continually repeat my background for the scaufers...it gets old and frankly comes off as too braggadocios. But back grounds don't matter anyway, all that matters to the MMGW Cultists (Like the Population Bomb, Big Bang, and Peak Oil Cultists) is that their Beliefs are affirmed.

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I guess in your world ridicule is not a form of personal attack. A pretty insular little world you appear to live in.
It's called a sense of humor...safety first Mike, don your safety glass.
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Old 03-01-2016, 16:08   #1055
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Still mad at me?

I did read it.

To really prove that you've got my number, please list out what/how you think I'd respond to it.
I suppose I could, but I keep lowering my expectations and you keep failing below them, despite your obvious intellectualism. Besides, I'm still waiting for an answer on how you know that skeptical scientists are ignoring significant AGW data and burning files that contradict their positions. Hey, you made the accusations. I'm also waiting for some support for your oft-repeated claims that the skeptics amongst us have personally disparaged any of the scientists who have adopted the consensus. I suspect you're still confused with the difference b'twn. institutional bias and personal corruption. And I suppose in your simplistic world, none of the consensus scientists could possibly suffer from the former, but all of the latter cannot possibly hold the positions they do without being personally corrupt. Wouldn't that be a nice way to simply end this complicated debate?
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Old 03-01-2016, 16:11   #1056
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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We have all the tools now, and it's only a matter of collectively moving forward?? Just to take one recently contested example, where are the tools to keep the base power needs supplied to the Calgary power grid without maintaining its high dependence on coal & natural gas? And even if we figure this out, how does China and the rest of the developing world become convinced to follow our lead? What will induce China to replace the cheap energy from coal plants it is bringing online once/week and replace it with more expensive and less efficient renewable sources of energy?

I'd suggest the eventual answer is the same now as it always has been for human civilization, namely the type of technological advancements discussed in the article from the opening post of this thread.
Kinda wish this editor was more versatile. It gets hard to carry on a complex back and forth discussion. Let me start by saying I think you and I are pretty close in our views on this stuff.

To respond to your last question first, my response is simple: nuclear fission. This is the best option for powering our civilization until we can figure out controlled fusion (which sadly has always been "just around the corner").

Where I would quibble is with this assertion regarding my point about the nature of all organizations:

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Very true, but what you're noting is the psychology of all organizations, not just governments. All governments, bureaucracies, corporations, companies, associations, charities, militaries, etc. have a tendency to expand their mandates and power, and fill the spaces available to them. It's a well-studied phenomena, and it is not limited to public institutions like government.

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I wouldn't disagree. The difference with many parts of govt. and in some cases nonprofits is reduced accountability. This is by no means a criticism of people who choose these careers (I did for a long while), but rather is the nature of these institutions and basic human frailty. Not all but many if not most people need some sort of external inducement to motivate themselves. In the absence of the incentives, disincentives, competition, and profit motive that more typically characterizes the private sector, govt. is often more susceptible to becoming inefficient and unaccountable to their constituencies. But I agree that just about any organization of human beings has the potential to become corrupted with its power, if that's what you mean. Like you, I'm glad that the fossil fuel interests aren't in charge of the research into CC, but I am glad that there are properly funded scientists out there challenging the consensus.
I would argue that government is, in general, MORE responsive to the citizens it serves compared to large corporations. It has the discipline of elections, after all. But I would agree this is not the case in all so-called democracies.

As for incentives/disincentives, there has been a lot of cognitive, psychological and economic research in this broad area over the last couple of decades. The results show that incentives work in some areas, but not in all areas. Money, for example, has been shown to be a very poor motivator for advanced forms of achievement. In other words, it's great for motivating tree planters, but not so great when it comes to so-called professional tasks. Competition too is great in some areas, and piss-poor in others.

The notions of humans as simple Homo-Economicus who go around maximizing personal position or gain, has been shown to explain only a small part of our nature. This is why the neoliberal/neo-con takeover of western economies has proven so disastrous for most people.

But I don't want to dwell on disagreement, b/c I think in general we do agree.
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Old 03-01-2016, 16:16   #1057
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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I'd suggest the eventual answer is the same now as it always has been for human civilization, namely the type of technological advancements discussed in the article from the opening post of this thread.
The OP article was saying "relax, don't worry, it'll get fixed".

Bill Gates makes a very good case for why it won't just "get fixed" and why an active government role and mandate will be necessary, to acheive those technological advancements.
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Old 03-01-2016, 16:18   #1058
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

Its 24 outside and snowing but Wendy's says they are ready for gw
https://www.wendys.com/en-us/fries-sides
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Old 03-01-2016, 16:19   #1059
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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I suppose I could, but I keep lowering my expectations and you keep failing below them.
Ok, you're still mad at me.
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Old 03-01-2016, 16:21   #1060
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
I guess you also don't know that I WAS in the scientific community you hold in such high regard..ha ha ha....presenting papers on pollution control at the conferences, dong research, filing Patents, doing CO2 testing at Coal fired power plants...ha ha ha. Have you ever measured CO2 and other pollutants from Power plants around the US? Na....but you did stay at a Holiday Inn Select once. (I call that line damn funny...you can call it ridicule if you don't have a sense of humor)
Well, I guess score one point for you. This clearly proves you are correct in saying not all so-called scientists are reliable. Thanks .

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It's called a sense of humor...safety first Mike, don your safety glass.
OK, here's an experiment. Try ridiculing your wife, then report back here with the results. Oh, and don't forget your safety glasses .

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Mike, I know this thread is long but I can't continually repeat my background for the scaufers...it gets old and frankly comes off as too braggadocios. But back grounds don't matter anyway, all that matters to the MMGW Cultists (Like the Population Bomb, Big Bang, and Peak Oil Cultists) is that their Beliefs are affirmed.
Since you're obviously impervious to actually supportable information, I'll just start summarizing with the only response that you might understand: LIE, LIE, LIE

(Oh, was that funny? Felt like ridicule to me, but you obviously know better )
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Old 03-01-2016, 16:25   #1061
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Bill Gates makes a very good case for why it won't just "get fixed" and why an active government role and mandate will be necessary, to acheive those technological advancements.
You mean the Bill Gates that thinks we need Socialism to Fix MMGW...ha ha ha...well at least he is honest about where he wants to go.
One of the aims of the MMGW issue is about imposing Eco Imperialism on the worlds developing countries to keep them down and poor, while the rich developed world get to stay...well rich and developed.


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Old 03-01-2016, 16:27   #1062
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
The OP article was saying "relax, don't worry, it'll get fixed".

Bill Gates makes a very good case for why it won't just "get fixed" and why an active government role and mandate will be necessary, to acheive those technological advancements.
Funny.... I don't remember "an active government" mandating Bill and his buddy Paul to come up with an operating system for the new fangled PC 40 years ago? And taxing the masses in order to fund it?

But Damn... my small brain has trouble remembering stuff these days.
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Old 03-01-2016, 16:32   #1063
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Kinda wish this editor was more versatile. It gets hard to carry on a complex back and forth discussion. Let me start by saying I think you and I are pretty close in our views on this stuff.

To respond to your last question first, my response is simple: nuclear fission. This is the best option for powering our civilization until we can figure out controlled fusion (which sadly has always been "just around the corner").

Where I would quibble is with this assertion regarding my point about the nature of all organizations:



I would argue that government is, in general, MORE responsive to the citizens it serves compared to large corporations. It has the discipline of elections, after all. But I would agree this is not the case in all so-called democracies.
I completely agree about nuclear power being THE clean energy currently available to us in large quantities, but strongly disagree about government versus corporations being more responsive and this disagreement is at the root of so many other issues.

To state as clearly as possible why I feel the way I do I'd compare the corporation that is not responsive to its customers needs/wants versus the government that is not responsive to its citizens. The unresponsive corporation soon finds it's customers patronizing the competition and goes out of business, but since the government is the only game in town (it OWNS the town!), it can and frequently does continue being unresponsive with near impunity. I liken big government to a HUGE corporation with no competitors unless you are willing to uproot yourself and move thousands of miles from your home. Even the biggest and most powerful corporations have competitors but big government is a true monopoly. I really do understand the suspicion and fear many have of big corporations and their legions of lobbyists ensuring they always get their way, but I also think that the only thing we should fear more than that is an even bigger government that makes the rules as they go along and no matter how badly they screw up, they still have no competition. We're stuck with them and they know it.
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Old 03-01-2016, 16:32   #1064
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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I'll just start summarizing with the only response that you might understand: LIE, LIE, LIE
(Oh, was that funny? Felt like ridicule to me, but you obviously know better )
Calling something a lie that you moments ago admitted to not knowing anything about doesn't come off as ridicule or funny...just desperate with a touch of bruised ego. But knock yourself out.

Rule No 1 about being in a hole...stop digging.

Now back to the Great Issue at hand.
24 days to Al Gore’s ’10 years to save the planet’ and ‘point of no return’ planetary emergency deadline | Watts Up With That?
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Old 03-01-2016, 16:37   #1065
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Funny.... I don't remember "an active government" mandating Bill and his buddy Paul to come up with an operating system for the new fangled PC 40 years ago? And taxing the masses in order to fund it?

But Damn... my small brain has trouble remembering stuff these days.
AGW won't be solved by two kids in a garage. Did you read the interview?
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