Saga of the Sunken Sailboat - from Start to Sunk

[GordMay]

I know we’ve previously discussed this boat, which overwintered, and sank, in New Brunswick’s St. John River;
but, I can’t find the thread.

Watch the saga of the sunken sailboat, from start to sunk
Jordan Tatton’s vessel, “Not a Starship”, began to sink, in February, and is now almost completely submerged.
➥ https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/9.4201633

More about:
“Not a Starship not afloat: Once stuck-in-ice vessel is now on bottom of St. John River” ➥ https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...line-1.7170720

And ➥ https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/9.4201499
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canad...&ei=10#details

[deblen]

I haven't heard anything lately.It is early for SJ R.-normal yrs the ice does't go out til Apr.,though I believe the lower river is mainly clear this yr. Normal launch of pleasure craft happens Vic.Day weekend-ca. May 24ish.


https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...er-282982.html

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by deblen

Frozen in the river
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...er-282982.html

Thanks.

[deblen]

[5BTM]

I bet he doesn't have a penny to contribute to the clean-up.

[CaptTom]

Well, now you know how the folks in Florida feel. Except there are thousands of derelicts, instead of just the one.

OK, that was snarky. Sorry. It's a truly sad story all around. Sad for a once-proud boat. Sad for the previous owner. Sad for the local residents and boaters. And, despite all the pain they caused, sad for the owner. As we've discussed endlessly in the various Florida and Georgia anchoring legislation threads, there are no easy solutions.

[dlj]

I listen to all the "oh so sad" expressions and while I agree, I can't help but think what hubris some people have. The power of the ocean, ice and the forces of nature are greater than anything mankind can make. Why do people have such a cavalier attitude?

dj

[Kettlewell]

I listen to all the "oh so sad" expressions and while I agree, I can't help but think what hubris some people have. The power of the ocean, ice and the forces of nature are greater than anything mankind can make. Why do people have such a cavalier attitude?

Many people have lost longterm connections to the natural world and have little idea about it and the power of nature except for what they see on YouTube or Instagram. Every snow storm here in the Northeast I see people out in the weather ridiculously dressed in an outfit I wouldn't go one block from my house in. You read about some of them found dead in their cars when they get stuck someplace and don't have a cellphone signal and no emergency supplies. And then some people get enough knowledge to go on a hike in the winter, but they try to climb a High Peak solo with the wrong clothes and no emergency bivouac gear. Luckily, the Rangers save a lot of them because they can sometimes reach help with their cell phones. I have talked to many people heading off into the forest to do stuff that is obviously way above their ability, and through dumb luck most of them make it. I think the #1 problem is that cellphones give people the false belief that help will be available if they need it. Similarly, look at all the YouTubers setting off on their first boat to sail around the world. The mishaps along the way fuel the entertainment value of the videos I guess, but I suspect more than a few dreamers head off woefully inexperienced and unprepared mentally, even if they have all the gear.

[BenBowSirocco]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

Well, now you know how the folks in Florida feel. Except there are thousands of derelicts, instead of just the one.

I'm with your original statement. No apologies from me about it.


I counted NINE (9) either sunk or washed ashore derelicts just in Gulfport FL bay the last time I was in that area... And people still get all huffy if you start talking about anchoring laws! When its plain as day to see what is happening is not working.

One boat was literally on top of someone seawall: right in their front yard!

I completely agree its a hard thing to fix. Because this is supposed to be a free country and to me the basic definition of freedom is the personal right to make poor decisions: but these derelicts really are destroying the image of cruisers and boaters in general.

I honestly find myself avoiding any anchorage that has the ugly derelicts if I can help it- simply dont want the association between my beautiful and damn hard earned boat and those floating garbage bins.


Any law passed to help stop the destruction inevitably seems destined to harm people who take this sort of thing seriously (as they should). Its a crying shame.




KettleWell:

We see this often when backcountry skiing. People without even the basic gear out there risking their lives with no clue they are doing it. They honestly just do not know the risks involved and I believe if they did they would do it properly because my life experience thus far has shown me people are good people, generally speaking.

I wonder if its a desensitization thing, a lot of these folks have seen so many movies or shows they seem to think the risks are real.

[deblen]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Many people have lost longterm connections to the natural world and have little idea about it and the power of nature except for what they see on YouTube or Instagram. Every snow storm here in the Northeast I see people out in the weather ridiculously dressed in an outfit I wouldn't go one block from my house in. You read about some of them found dead in their cars when they get stuck someplace and don't have a cellphone signal and no emergency supplies. And then some people get enough knowledge to go on a hike in the winter, but they try to climb a High Peak solo with the wrong clothes and no emergency bivouac gear. Luckily, the Rangers save a lot of them because they can sometimes reach help with their cell phones. I have talked to many people heading off into the forest to do stuff that is obviously way above their ability, and through dumb luck most of them make it. I think the #1 problem is that cellphones give people the false belief that help will be available if they need it. Similarly, look at all the YouTubers setting off on their first boat to sail around the world. The mishaps along the way fuel the entertainment value of the videos I guess, but I suspect more than a few dreamers head off woefully inexperienced and unprepared mentally, even if they have all the gear.

You hit the nail on the head!! To many folks that have been off the farm,or sea-for too many generations-thinking Hollywood & modern media is the real world./ Len

[deblen]

Originally Posted by BenBowSirocco

I'm with your original statement. No apologies from me about it.


I counted NINE (9) either sunk or washed ashore derelicts just in Gulfport FL bay the last time I was in that area... And people still get all huffy if you start talking about anchoring laws! When its plain as day to see what is happening is not working.

One boat was literally on top of someone seawall: right in their front yard!

I completely agree its a hard thing to fix. Because this is supposed to be a free country and to me the basic definition of freedom is the personal right to make poor decisions: but these derelicts really are destroying the image of cruisers and boaters in general.

I honestly find myself avoiding any anchorage that has the ugly derelicts if I can help it- simply dont want the association between my beautiful and damn hard earned boat and those floating garbage bins.


Any law passed to help stop the destruction inevitably seems destined to harm people who take this sort of thing seriously (as they should). Its a crying shame.




KettleWell:

We see this often when backcountry skiing. People without even the basic gear out there risking their lives with no clue they are doing it. They honestly just do not know the risks involved and I believe if they did they would do it properly because my life experience thus far has shown me people are good people, generally speaking.

I wonder if its a desensitization thing, a lot of these folks have seen so many movies or shows they seem to think the risks are real.

Many folks don't accept the responsibilty that comes with their freedom./L

[CaptTom]

I'm going to double down on my comments about this being "sad."

It's sad that this sort of thing is so common. It's sad how people can be so ignorant of the power of nature. It's sad that social and traditional media fuel these fantasies. It's sad that people aren't taught that along with freedom, comes responsibility. I could go on.

That said, I think we're all pretty much in agreement about most of these points. Where we struggle is finding workable solutions.

I've gone on record here of supporting the idea of reasonable time restrictions on anchoring. This case, and specifically how all the officials claimed to be powerless to do anything about it, only proves my point. Just one rule limiting days at anchor in one spot would have given them the authority they needed to resolve this back in the fall.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by BenBowSirocco

... I completely agree its a hard thing to fix. Because this is supposed to be a free country and to me the basic definition of freedom is the personal right to make poor decisions: but these derelicts really are destroying the image of cruisers and boaters in general...

... We see this often when backcountry skiing. People without even the basic gear out there risking their lives with no clue they are doing it. They honestly just do not know the risks involved and I believe if they did they would do it properly because my life experience thus far has shown me people are good people, generally speaking...

Originally Posted by CaptTom

... It's sad that social and traditional media fuel these fantasies. It's sad that people aren't taught that along with freedom, comes responsibility...

Originally Posted by deblen

Many folks don't accept the responsibilty that comes with their freedom.

People, generally, have a right to autonomy [‘freedom’], that encompasses making decisions, that others consider 'bad'.

The problem is, that no one wants to argue, that we need less freedom.
So, we twist the definition of the word, to suite our own needs; even if [sometimes] we [actually] might benefit from less freedom.*

But, to live as part of society, people must relinquish some of their freedom. We must agree to some restrictions, on our actions, when the consequences of those choices, may also be experienced by others.
Hence, we try to achieve a balance, between the freedom we grant individuals, and the effects they can have on others [a social contract, like laws].

* ie: Our freedom, to make poor choices, should be restricted, to exclude the freedom to park our car, in the middle of a superhighway; which would offer neither [much] personal, nor societal, benefit.

Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Franklin was writing about a tax dispute, between the Pennsylvania General Assembly, and the family of the Penns, the proprietary family of the Pennsylvania colony, who ruled it from afar. And, the legislature was trying to tax the Penn family lands, to pay for frontier defense, during the French and Indian War. And, the Penn family kept instructing the governor to veto. Franklin felt that this was a great affront to the ability of the legislature to govern. And so, he actually meant, purchase a little temporary safety, very literally. The Penn family was trying to give a lump sum of money, in exchange for the General Assembly's acknowledging, that it did not have the authority to tax it.
It is actually a quotation, that defends the authority of a legislature to govern, in the interests of collective security.

[hpeer]

Oh boy, I can think of so many comments that would be “insensitive” to say the least.

Freedom, responsibility, common sense, respect are all lacking. What would posses someone to chain a dink to the only boarding ladder, or to chain a dink fore and aft broadside on a busy dock? Hubris, stupidity, insensitivity, lack of foresight?

I have no idea how many boats have come ashore here in the E Caribbean this year, it is at least a dozen, perhaps 3 dozen. I know of multiple incidents where 4 boats have come ashore in a day. It is not like there is a dearth of a information about anchors and how to anchor or mooring for that matter.

And yes we all make mistakes, but such a high percentage and repeated?

I do suspect Kentwell has it pretty well covered. People from our culture have become isolated from the physical world. They have been removed from experiencing the basic forces from childhood. They can not comprehend the force of wind and tide and ice. They expect the social net to save them.

I am reminded of first time boaters (2) we met and 1 we heard of who bought brand new 50’ and larger cats, zero experience. One a brand new 55’ ish Gunboat. One guy was in a great rush to have some warranty work done because he was joining a RTW rally. He proudly said he thought a RTW rally was “A good way to get our feet wet sailing.” The scary thing is he and his Wife were both Physicians.

So, yeah, stuff happens, dreams are busted, people are over whelmed, they walk away, slink back to their TV in a supervised condo.


There is nothing to be done about it, they are but human.

[GordMay]

An interesting story, about a derelict [& now abandoned] live-aboard:

“Saving 'Pirate' Ryan”
➥ https://www.capitaldaily.ca/news/saving-pirate-ryan

The abandoned boats washing up on Victoria's shores, in pictures
The Dead Boats Disposal Society has spent decades pulling the wrecks out of the water and off the beaches in Victoria, BC.
➥ https://www.capitaldaily.ca/news/aba...ctorias-shores