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Old 10-06-2014, 08:32   #106
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Re: Really Cool Plane -

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Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
"If it was in Biscayne Bay, that must of been you and a couple of hundred of your best sailing buddies. "

AVB, that was a long time ago when Homestead AFB was still a SAC base.
Biscayne Bay wasn't quite so busy then.
When I was younger, ok much younger, My dad and I were on Biscayne Bay and F16s from Homestead were stacked up to the SW of us and then rolling in to do runs on our sail boat. They never got really close but a flight of four of them were practicing sinking our boat.

Twas fun to watch on our slow sail.

Later,
Dan
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Old 10-06-2014, 08:47   #107
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Re: Really Cool Plane -

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To fly on the plane was $400 a person. I saw a family of four sign up. Next time that plane is in the area, I am flying on the plane.
I assume it was Liberty Belle, unfortunately she caught fire and burned:



I read an account of the incident after it happened, apparently the fire was small and could have been contained, but the local FD didn't want to risk their trucks getting stuck in mud and wouldn't try to put it out, so the rest of the plane burned. That story still makes my skin crawl.

She has, fortunately, been replaced with another aircraft that is touring and offering the same flights.
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Old 10-06-2014, 09:07   #108
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Re: Really Cool Plane -

As far as going for a "spin" I took this when I first got the 140 some years ago, before I started it's restoration. about 1 min into the video.

http://vimeo.com/9791700
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Old 10-06-2014, 09:14   #109
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Re: Really Cool Plane -

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I assume it was Liberty Belle, unfortunately she caught fire and burned:
...

She has, fortunately, been replaced with another aircraft that is touring and offering the same flights.
The plane we saw was the replacement for the Liberty Bell which had burned up just before the event we saw.

From what I remember, the crew at the show said that the plane was destroyed because of miscommunication with the FD. The fire engine was recalled but then resent and they could not get to engine to the plane. The fire was small on board and the pilot landed the plane safely. The fire then got out of control... Danged shame.

If anyone is in south GA on I95, stop by the 8th Air Force museum in Savannah. We have stopped a couple of times and we still need to stop a few more times to really see it all. Well worth a stop for a couple of hours. They have a B17 being refurbished and there is a B47 you can see from I95. A F4 and Mig 17 or a 19 are out in front of the building.

My only complaint about the museum is the positioning of the Mig and F4. The Mig has the "shot" on the F4. It really should be the other way around.

Later,
Dan
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Old 10-06-2014, 09:14   #110
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Re: Really Cool Plane -

My Dad was a bombardier in a B-17, during WWII. He was awarded the Air Medal and the Distinguished Flying Cross. Never spoke to much about it other than during some beer drinking on a Saturday night. My Mom told me more than he did. The Collins Institute has a B-17, and I took one of their flights to see what it was like. Not just my Dad, but all the flyers during those years were extroardinary people. I think a beer can is thicker metal that the skin of those planes, or it appears that way. No insulation, cold, loud, no electronic navigation, and built as quickly as they could. It was really a meaningful experience for me. I have even more respect for what they did. I wish he was here so I could tell him.
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Old 10-06-2014, 11:00   #111
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Re: Really Cool Plane -

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My Dad was a bombardier in a B-17, during WWII. He was awarded the Air Medal and the Distinguished Flying Cross. Never spoke to much about it other than during some beer drinking on a Saturday night. My Mom told me more than he did. The Collins Institute has a B-17, and I took one of their flights to see what it was like. Not just my Dad, but all the flyers during those years were extroardinary people. I think a beer can is thicker metal that the skin of those planes, or it appears that way. No insulation, cold, loud, no electronic navigation, and built as quickly as they could. It was really a meaningful experience for me. I have even more respect for what they did. I wish he was here so I could tell him.
I want to say that the B17 we saw was from the Collins Institute. The thinness of the cabin aluminum was very apparent.

At the 8th Air Force museum is a wing section of a B17 that was shot down over Europe. A crewman who survived the shoot down eventually found the wind which was being used to as a room for a pig sty or something and arranged to get the wing shipped back to the US. The wing is made from some very thin materials but by the time the pieces are all assembled, that wing is very strong. The wing is over 60-70 years old...

I was thinking of the strength of the wing while looking at the thin metal between me and the outside of the plane. That could not have been a comfortable thought to the crew as they fought against and enemy shooting at them with .30, 20mm, 30mm, and 88mm cannons, amongst other things.

If you want to read about some VERY brave men in a B71, the most decorated crew, here ya go, http://www.homeofheroes.com/wings/part2/07_zeamer_sarnoski.html.

They were no in the European Theater though. I was thinking about that crew and other members of their unit while sweating on the B17 near my house. It was bad for me but oh so much hotter where they were fighting. I do not read much fiction because truth is far more interesting. If you wrote a fictional book/movie similar to what the men did on that plane actually did, nobody would believe it possible.

Later,
Dan
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Old 10-06-2014, 11:38   #112
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Re: Really Cool Plane -

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"...and he said that next time he is down here he will take us for a spin."
Coops, when a pilot tells you he'll take you for a spin, it might not mean what you think. Either way, it would be a fun ride.
I know from personal experience your not spinning a stinson without a roll first. That is a roll of duck tape. Any one that has owned a stinson knows what i am talking about.

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Old 10-06-2014, 11:48   #113
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Re: Really Cool Plane -

I traded a ride in an old antique Dart for a ride in a P51 once. Got to play with it a little and rolled it a few times. I got the better of that deal! Life is too short to get in a twist about someone else having fun. There are people that think using a boat for recreation should not be allowed be cause it is too dangerous. For goodness sakes, you don't take GRANDCHILDREN where they could DROWN!?!?!

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Nice to see so many aviators speaking up on CF. I knew that you all had to be there but its not common to have a thread to respond to.
One of the most I interesting moments for me was walking into the crew room to start a trip and it hit me...there's no one but kids in here. Oh my god I'm senior! From that moment the boat loomed much larger in my thinking...bullet proof? Not so much anymore. It was a great privilege to do that work and be good at it.
My problem was that I always seemed to get older faster than I got more senior.
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Old 10-06-2014, 11:48   #114
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Re: Really Cool Plane -

Now that I am older and still alive; on the pacific side the swells are so big you can ride them. I have done it at 130 knots and it is very cool. Not sure how fast you could go and still stay low enough and you are to low to turn much.
See a nautical connection.
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Old 10-06-2014, 12:05   #115
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Re: Really Cool Plane -

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I know from personal experience your not spinning a stinson without a roll first. That is a roll of duck tape. Any one that has owned a stinson knows what i am talking about.

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Uh, Type Certificate data sheet attached, as a land plane it's approved for spins as its in Utility as well as Normal category.

http://www.stinsonflyer.com/avtextsf/a-767.pdf

If you look at the video of the little 140 I have spinning, you'll notice at the beginning of the spin, her going over on her back, the 140 doesn't want to spin either, but does so marvelously once you talk her into it. Two ways to do this, one is by engine torque, think prop walk, goosing the throttle right at stall will torque her over into a spin but my favorite way is elevator full up, and before she stalls, bury the rudder in the direction you want to spin. If you do this before stall, she goes over on her back and comes out spinning. If you don't get her on her back, she simply will not spin, she will turn circles all day long of course as the rudder is held full over, but she won't actually be spinning, just a much slower rotation.
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Old 10-06-2014, 12:34   #116
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Re: Really Cool Plane -

A 140 doesnt have slots. Most planes dont. The hiperbipe desnt like to stay in either but if you roll upside down and open the cowl flap you can geet real tight inverted spins, then come in with some opposite aileron and power and it goes flat real nice. One ov my favorite maneuvers was flying knife edge, then haul back and do 1 1/2 snaps stopping on the other knife edge. Sooo much fun.

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Old 10-06-2014, 12:35   #117
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Re: Really Cool Plane -

Started flying my dads stinson when i was 10. I know that plane well.

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Old 10-06-2014, 13:05   #118
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Re: Really Cool Plane -

Years ago, when I was learning to fly, my flight instructor was a WWII veteran of the RAF. When he passed away three years ago, I went to his funeral, and during the outside service, as we were waiting for it to begin, I heard the unmistakable sound of a very powerful airplane engine and my first thought was, 'that has to be a Rolls-Royce Merlin.' A moment later a Spitfire, with full RAF markings made a pass over us at about 500', turned and made another waggling his wings in salute.

It was an extremely touching salute to a departed Spitfire pilot.
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Old 10-06-2014, 16:23   #119
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Re: Really Cool Plane -

The B-17 crews that flew the initial raids into Germany in 1943, without fighter escort, were indeed brave souls. Loss rate on some missions was as high as 15%. Doesn't take very high level math to figure out the chance of surviving for the 25 missions that got them sent home. Someone mentioned how difficult it was to get into a B-17. Think how difficult it was to bail out from a crippled airplane. Had one uncle who made his 25, but lost two uncles over France in B-26s in '43.

My dad joined the RCAF in 1940 but didn't get overseas till after the end of the Battle of Britain. Flew Spits which they transferred with into the US Airforce when the US came into the war. Eventually transitioned into P-51B's flying weather for the daytime raids into Germany. When they got the first P-51, a ferry pilot dropped it off on a Saturday, handed them the manuals and wished them luck, no training offered. The XO of the squadron took it up and killed himself flying low level. The P-51 was not nearly as forgiving in slow speed maneuvering as the Spitfire.
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Old 10-06-2014, 17:24   #120
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Re: Really Cool Plane -

My Dad made the full number of missions, don't remember is it was 20 or 25. When I took the ride I seem to remember that some of the gunners had to get in their position while on the ground. I might be wrong, but if not, talk about the loneliest person in the world. I was told that the crews were assigned a plane in the US and flew it over. Back then, or a little later, you wouldn't venture far from a car dealer when you bought a car and drove it a bit. Imagine jumping in a plane for it's first few flights and do a trans-atlantic crossing. And we worry about boats.
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