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Old 16-09-2011, 13:03   #106
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Re: Deep-Sea Fishing Not Sustainable - Study

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According to the documentary "King of Corn". We are mostly corn. Almost everything we buy contains some form of corn.
Personally I don't have a problem with corn. I know there are beliefs about it but I don't share them.
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Old 16-09-2011, 13:13   #107
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Re: Deep-Sea Fishing Not Sustainable - Study

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I have heard these same arguments for the last 50 years, or so.
However, population is not growing linearly, but exponentially.

Quick Facts
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Old 16-09-2011, 13:17   #108
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Re: Deep-Sea Fishing Not Sustainable - Study

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I have heard these same arguments for the last 50 years, or so. As it stands today, there should be no life in the oceans, at all. Oceans should have been void of life 20 years ago. Not to mention we should be in the middle of an ice age. But when the globe started warming again, they cried global warming. When the warming stopped, they changed it to "global climate change"! Criminy! The climate has been changing since the beginning. Before life, before people.
These people have no credibility anymore!
I wasn't talking global warming, but the protection of the waters and being respectful towards the other animals that share this planet with us. Go check out the dead zone in the gulf or get a list of all the rivers that you cant eat the fish from let alone drink the water.

Yeah, the rivers no longer catch on fire, but that is just because those greedy corporations moved the operations elsewhere. I've seen it, we had a superfund site in the small Ohio town I grew up in. I saw the kids getting cancers and methane burns all the time.
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Old 16-09-2011, 13:38   #109
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Re: Deep-Sea Fishing Not Sustainable - Study

The oil was fine...,till they brought it to the surface!The oceans ARE almost void of life.Been out on the ocean lately?Propoganda abounds.
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Old 16-09-2011, 13:40   #110
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Re: Deep-Sea Fishing Not Sustainable - Study

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However, population is not growing linearly, but exponentially.

Quick Facts
Quick Facts are funded by a global environmental group. The Santa Barbara Family Foundation, who get their funding from The Environmental Grantmakers Association. If Brian Czech has his way, neither you nor anyone else will be sailing any where.
"Limit the range of inequality in income and wealth, including both a minimum and maximum allowable income. Implement tax reforms to tax “bads” (e.g., pollution and depletion of natural resources) rather than goods (e.g., income from wages)." Which means he wants to take what we worked for and give it to someone else. I have a problem with that. He wants ethonol and non oil based fuels.

Quick Facts is one of those organizations that will bend the facts to fit their message. All the while taking your money while doing it. One of those credibility gaps I see. IMHO.
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Old 16-09-2011, 13:46   #111
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Re: Deep-Sea Fishing Not Sustainable - Study

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I wasn't talking global warming, but the protection of the waters and being respectful towards the other animals that share this planet with us. Go check out the dead zone in the gulf or get a list of all the rivers that you cant eat the fish from let alone drink the water.

Yeah, the rivers no longer catch on fire, but that is just because those greedy corporations moved the operations elsewhere. I've seen it, we had a superfund site in the small Ohio town I grew up in. I saw the kids getting cancers and methane burns all the time.
I am not saying that there were not bad practices, in the past. I live in Oklahoma. Lots of oil wells and drilling here. I fish and eat the fish from lakes that have wells in them. We eat the fish from all the rivers around here. And there is plenty of drilling going on. Things have changed. Practices have changed. And for the most part, oil and gas can be drilled and pumped with little impact. Used to be they needed a large area for equipment and tools and drilling fluids. That is no longer true. We can drill a deep well and use less than an acre of ground to do so.
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Old 16-09-2011, 13:47   #112
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Re: Deep-Sea Fishing Not Sustainable - Study

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The oil was fine...,till they brought it to the surface!The oceans ARE almost void of life.Been out on the ocean lately?Propoganda abounds.
As compared to when? 100 years ago? A thousand? Were you there then? How do you know this fact? What is your base line?
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Old 16-09-2011, 13:48   #113
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Re: Deep-Sea Fishing Not Sustainable - Study

Re: facts on the internet - No doubt about it, if you see it on the internet it must be true . . .
- - There is no shortage of supposedly "Fact" checkers, etc., etc. that do the same thing to advance their particular view of the world. The internet is a very fertile place for this sort of thing as it is basically an anarchic community where virtually (literally and figuratively) anything goes with no moderating or policing of reality versus fiction.
- - One such tactic employed is to take a subject or concern and divorce it from all the millions of surrounding influences in the real world. Then relate the subject or concern only to your pet peeve or claim a causal relationship. The real world is not made up of singularities but is a cross connection of an infinite number of variables. Each may or may not be causal since it is only one out of a wide range of other influences.
- - Welcome to the brave new world . . .
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Old 16-09-2011, 14:20   #114
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Re: facts on the internet - No doubt about it, if you see it on the internet it must be true . . .
- - There is no shortage of supposedly "Fact" checkers, etc., etc. that do the same thing to advance their particular view of the world. The internet is a very fertile place for this sort of thing as it is basically an anarchic community where virtually (literally and figuratively) anything goes with no moderating or policing of reality versus fiction.
- - One such tactic employed is to take a subject or concern and divorce it from all the millions of surrounding influences in the real world. Then relate the subject or concern only to your pet peeve or claim a causal relationship. The real world is not made up of singularities but is a cross connection of an infinite number of variables. Each may or may not be causal since it is only one out of a wide range of other influences.
- - Welcome to the brave new world . . .
To many "big" words for me. Lol
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Old 16-09-2011, 14:46   #115
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Re: Deep-Sea Fishing Not Sustainable - Study

NeptunesTrident; so are you saying those population numbers are wrong? Are you saying that you are one of the incredibly rich and you don't want to share? Or are you saying I don't like the guy and his solutions? Or what are you saying?
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Old 16-09-2011, 15:00   #116
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Re: Deep-Sea Fishing Not Sustainable - Study

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NeptunesTrident; so are you saying those population numbers are wrong? Or are you saying I don't like the guy and his solutions? Or what are you saying?
DeepFrz, what I mean is that the source is tainted. Call me cynical. I mean no disrespect to you nor the man in question. And I would not dispute, just off hand, his figures, without more research on my part. Not that I don't like the guy, I don't know him to dislike him. But I do question his motivation, having dealt with people like that in the past. He has a very long list of ultra liberal credentials and associations. That said, I am just as distrustful of facts and figures from those with ultra conservative credentials and associations, i.e. The John Birch Society.
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Old 16-09-2011, 15:16   #117
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Re: Deep-Sea Fishing Not Sustainable - Study

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The United States has a program (CRP-conservation reserve progam which also pays farmers not to grow crops.

So how would you discriminate between species? That is part of the problem right now, with seine, long line and trawlers; everything gets scooped up, and the "by catch" usually gets dumped into the sea, dead.

Not being able to target species is part of the problem.


Well... the issue is ultimately with the consumer. If consumers decided not to eat as much fish or certain types of fish like Chilean sea bass... err... Patagonian Toothfish, then fishing patterns would change. Fishing industry quotas might change slowly, but amount of fish that is being imported with a high proportion of it being caught illegally, by fishing "pirates" , might be reduced quicker.


Imho, there could be two complimentary ways to go about it:

1. [this started happening already] State on the label of each individual fish where it came from and whether it was sustainable. Turkish people do this with every farmed fish - you come to a store and every fish has a label hanging from its gill. Though "sustainable" is a can of worms all in itself as North Americans call, for example, farmed salmon "sustainable"

2. Follow the sigarettes route and distribute warnings about environment and pictures of dead bycatch with the fish sold. That would get attention of the population. I think it would be especially effective on fish fingers packs and shark fin boxes - the two most desired fish products in the world (according to Sylvia Earle).
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Old 16-09-2011, 15:20   #118
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Re: Deep-Sea Fishing Not Sustainable - Study

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Well... the issue is ultimately with the consumer. If consumers decided not to eat as much fish or certain types of fish like Chilean sea bass... err... Patagonian Toothfish, then fishing patterns would change. Fishing industry quotas might change slowly, but amount of fish that is being imported with a high proportion of it being caught illegally, by fishing "pirates" , might be reduced quicker.


Imho, there could be two complimentary ways to go about it:

1. [this started happening already] State on the label of each individual fish where it came from and whether it was sustainable. Turkish people do this with every farmed fish - you come to a store and every fish has a label hanging from its gill. Though "sustainable" is a can of worms all in itself as North Americans call, for example, farmed salmon "sustainable"

2. Follow the sigarettes route and distribute warnings about environment and pictures of dead bycatch with the fish sold. That would get attention of the population. I think it would be especially effective on fish fingers packs and shark fin boxes - the two most desired fish products in the world (according to Sylvia Earle).
I like catfish. Farmed or fished. Fried catfish and hush puppies are, what Tony Tiger sayes.
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Old 16-09-2011, 15:22   #119
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Re: Deep-Sea Fishing Not Sustainable - Study

Maybe these stats will be more palatable.

World Population Clock
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Old 16-09-2011, 15:26   #120
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Re: Deep-Sea Fishing Not Sustainable - Study

Farmed catfish are in a completely different category as they are raised in ponds away from the wild population. Farmed salmon on the other hand are raised in pens that are open nets to the surrounding fish populations. Farmed salmon also are fed on fish and fish byproducts mostly from fish that are caught in the southern oceans.
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