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Old 10-05-2007, 06:12   #1
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Climate Change

Issues surrounding climate change seem to be creeping into many threads, diluting the original purpose of those threads.

The earth's climate is generally defined as the average weather over a long period of time.
Some meteorologists differentiate climate from weather: "climate is what you expect and weather is what you get."

Climate may change in different ways, over different time scales and at different geographical scales. Climate change might (or might not) occur as a result of natural and/or human (anthropogenic) causes.

What are your thoughts on climate change?

Use this thread to discuss and debate all aspects of climate change (rather than hijacking other threads).
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Old 10-05-2007, 07:10   #2
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Thanks Gord

My view is that although there have been much warmer extended periods in earth's history, humans were not around and have only thrived in the recent cooler periods along with other species and flora suitable to be of benefit to us.

Artificially warming our climate by our burning of fossil fuels in a short period of time will most likely cause more rapid change than we and other species sharing our world are able to adapt to quickly enough. Yes the species would survive but it would be a much changed world.

The point is why go through this in the near future if we can take measures now to reduce our pollutants and slow down this warming process. Many detractants of action decry the inability to do these changes economically or practically within the time frames expected - Kioto Accord etc. I believe it is a matter of making this issue a top priority for governments, businesses and individuals and together we will find the ways and means to accomplish this.

I sincerely hope a major climate catastrophy or the deadline to reverse these conditions does not occur while we are debating the obvious to protect self interests.
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Old 10-05-2007, 13:00   #3
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Climate change happens! Compared to the earths temperature history, our current temperatures are down right cold.

Considering where most of the biodiversity exist on the planet today I think an increase temperature might be a good thing for life on earth. Not all life to be sure, but life in general. Some humans might be displaced, but we are smart, strong, and have always had a natural wanderlust.

You can follow the link below to see a 500 million year history of the earths temperature:

Geologic temperature record - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Old 10-05-2007, 14:36   #4
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True, back in the age of the dinosaurs the CO2 was 10 times higher than it is today and there were alligators basking in greenland. The issue isn't whether the world can change, because obviously it can and has. What we have typically had though is slow change over thousands of years allowing the random genetic mutations and natural selection to keep up by creating species adapted to the different climate. This is a comparatively rapid change however with a great chance of a synergistic reaction (ice melts, releases CO2, ice naturally reflects most of the sunlight back to space, and replaced by water, which absorbs more sunlight, causing increased warmth along with the CO2 released by the melting more ice, faster and faster).

We should be slowly back on our way to an ice age right now, we've reversed that process and have probably have had that natural cooling cycle shielding us from more rapid temperature changes caused by raising CO2 levels. Now that we've moved past the tipping point, it's possible that the temperatures will increase ever more quickly.

The planet has had rapid climate change too, and it wiped many many species. We are very dependent upon low lands for agricultural produce, double earths human population to 10 billion in 20 years and reduce the amount of agricultural land while increasing the net costs of agriculture by having to more heavily irrigate existing agricultural lands and you are talking about mass starvation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viking Sailor
Climate change happens! Compared to the earths temperature history, our current temperatures are down right cold.

Considering where most of the biodiversity exist on the planet today I think an increase temperature might be a good thing for life on earth. Not all life to be sure, but life in general. Some humans might be displaced, but we are smart, strong, and have always had a natural wanderlust.

You can follow the link below to see a 500 million year history of the earths temperature:

Geologic temperature record - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Old 10-05-2007, 14:55   #5
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I would like to see what a poll outcome would be on this subject.

It might go something like this

1. Yes I believe humans use of fossil fuels is aiding in the warming of the earth

2. No but I do believe we should do something about are polution anyway

3. No and I believe are use of the earths resorces is of little effect to the enviroment

What do you think? Did i miss an option?
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Old 10-05-2007, 15:09   #6
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Looks OK but what is the poll question? - Do you like your ice cream melted or frozen?
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Old 10-05-2007, 15:24   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny
Looks OK but what is the poll question? - Do you like your ice cream melted or frozen?
"do you believe we will be sailing the tropical coasts of antarctica" just to keep with the sailing theme
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Old 10-05-2007, 16:02   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pura Vida
Me thinks a double standard is afoot. Using a 'Pay Per Finding' organizations like The Hudson Institute or the Cato Institute as a base for criticism is poor argument...


I'm not certain I understand the thrust of your opening comment. Could you elaborate?
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First, thanks for moving the topic.

My only thought is on the structure of some of the arguments in the last thread. I suggest that if one person claims the argument of another person is invalid because their source is biased and then they use a biased source to prove their own point their argument lacks integrity. I did a significant amount of research on think tanks and the media in college working on a sociology degree. While think tanks create much of the popularly cited work, most are funded with a purpose and produce results aligned with that funding/purpose. In other words Hudson, Cato and Wikipedia have about the same value for me. I won't get into a dogfight on the value of peer review but it is there for a reason it.
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Old 10-05-2007, 16:38   #9
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5user5 - No it was supposed to be a joke about your poll question - what I was getting at is how do you intend to word the poll question since you asked for our input. I think a poll is a good idea and will crystalize the opinions on this site so we can see how well boaters, who are usually enviromentally consious, think about man's role in global warming - of course we DO have some stinkpotters here that buy fuel by the ton so there may be some interesting results. (had to bring that up didn't I )
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Old 10-05-2007, 16:47   #10
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5user5 - my last comment/joke in the reply above just made me think that it would be a good idea to have a separate polls - one for sailors and one for powerboaters - it would be interesting to see if there are differing attitudes. Let me say though that some of us - like me - are both so I'm not bashing powerboaters on the pollution question. Sailboats have engines too - ya know
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Old 10-05-2007, 17:43   #11
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I don't know. In the 1970's the scientific consensus was that pollution was causing global COOLING! We (western civilization) were supposedly pushing the planet into an early ice age! Now we have a few decades trend of rising temperatures, we are supposed to be responsible for global warming. Compared to the lifetime of the planet we haven't been collecting data for so much as an eyeblink. I don't think a forty year trend, even a 100 year trend is a certain indicator of something permanent. Natural events, such as volcanic eruptions make human activities pale into insignificance.

I feel the whole thing is just another reflection of our (as a species) over inflated sense of self importance - God supposedly created the whole universe just for us, and we are so mighty, and so important, that we can change the weather permanently on the entire planet. IMHO if someone were to visit Earth in two million years time, there would hardly be a single piece of evidence of human existence.
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Old 10-05-2007, 18:08   #12
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I was absolutely CERTAIN that we were causing all of the havoc, then read "State of Fear" by Micahael Chricton (SP) ... read this well documented work ... then let me know what ya think.
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Old 10-05-2007, 18:30   #13
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The action taken some years ago to reduce CFC emisions has had a measureable effect and the ozone hole is trending smaller (ie, repairing itself). This reduction in emisions came at no inconvenience to Joe Public as somebody else did the hard work of replacing refrigerants, propellants in aerosols etc. This proves to me that we can make a difference to the damage we are causing the planet but unfortunately the action needed to reverse carbon emisions comes at great inconvenience to Joe Public and this is where the stumbling block is. The inherent selfishness of the human species precludes most of us from getting off our collective asses and making some sacrifices. We want to be handed a solution, not to be part of it and until this mindset changes we are all in trouble eventually. Maybe not our generation or the next but someday it will bite us. The only argument that should be happening is "how hard" is that bite going to be?
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Old 10-05-2007, 19:22   #14
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Ummm...maybe you shouldn't be using the CFC ban to jusify a globa warming stance. Seems like there is a problem with the science and the media there too.
Accuracy In Media - - Cliff's Notes


I also love how the pro-man-made-warming folks love to assanite the characters of the opposition and complain that they are schills for the oil industry. One could say similar things about those who work for the "environmental grant" industry. I would rather see actual data refuted and I don't see any of that here or on the thread where this started. Does anyne care to refute any of the specific data cited here???:
Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide - Global Warming Petition Project
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Old 10-05-2007, 19:30   #15
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Here's a theory:

At the rate we're using up the fossil fuels it'll only last another 20 years. Then the CO2 levels will drop and it'll start getting cold.

So cold the people will be burning their furnisher to keep their mega houses warm. And will probably start on the forests next. This will raise the CO2 level again with all the wood smoke.

That'll cause another global warming making it so we don't have to burn so much wood. Then it starts getting cold again making people start burning wood again and then ...................

I guess I better start setting up my wood burning generator, windmill, water wheel, bicycle-gen and distiller so I can still surf the net.

Better yet, just go sailing......................................._/)
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