Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 01-02-2007, 09:42   #16
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,594
I see that most of you say that I'm not paranoid. That's good news, I think. But then again does that mean that most of you assume that increased regulations are an inevitable outcome? I don't want that myself. I sail for the freedom from such. What, if anything can a single sailor do to try to stem the tide? The only action that I see that could have a positive outcome would be to try and educate the less informed BEFORE they get in over their heads and as a group we try our best to do as Sean does and that's to help our fellow boaters.

When I first started sailing you could call the CG (I never have, for any reason) and tell them you were out of gas and they would bring you gas! Not any more. I'm just concerned that there will come a time when sailors who are prudent and know what they're doing will be lumped together and treated the same as the ex marine who thought it would be a good idea to sail across the North Atlantic in a 14 foot boat powered by kites!! He got his ass in a big crack and had to be rescued. This guy had a land based organization formed for this this stupid feat and guess who had to pull his bacon out of the fire? You got it the CG. We all know who footed that bill. Was this guy prudent? Was he trained? Was he smart? I guess the real problem is that stupidity can't be outlawed.
__________________

__________________
Randy

Cape Dory 25D Seraph
rtbates is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2007, 10:09   #17
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,525
I think my favorite "rescue" last summer was actually in the fall. I still had my inflatable filled up and on the davits. There was a man and a woman on a 19-21ft rental sailboat with no auxilliary power. It was BLOWING out... 25-30kts? They got themselves cornered in between a couple fingers at the marina I'm at now which has some *very* large and expensive boats. Anyway, they were just dragging down each and every boat on both fingers, drifting until they hit the main dock that attached the two fingers. I came out with my dinghy and towed them clear. I think they might have been beginners because they had the tiller hard to starboard when I first started towing, thinking they wouldn't have to steer if a boat towed them.

As to that marine... wasn't as tough as that Marine reputation, huh? He could have made that trip... his boat made the trip and he wasn't even on it! He was just too paranoid about his precious electronics failing. That guy sure didn't do all he could to prepare for the trip, such as say... sailing somewhere else first? I don't want to get started on him though. I said plenty in the other thread on him.
__________________

__________________
ssullivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2007, 10:10   #18
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Probably the safest AND cheapest long term approach for any Country is not to provide any SAR.

Folk will have to fend for themselves and this will cut down the numbers in trouble due to those unwilling / unable to proceed without a safety net (whether real or perceived), plus those who do not fend for themselves don't get to repeat the costs. or to breed.

Don't like the risks? don't do it. (of course that would require folk to a) realise that some things in life involve Risk and b) assess the Risks).

Want Risk free excitement?. Go to Disneyland.
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2007, 12:31   #19
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,594
Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey
Probably the safest AND cheapest long term approach for any Country is not to provide any SAR.

Folk will have to fend for themselves and this will cut down the numbers in trouble due to those unwilling / unable to proceed without a safety net (whether real or perceived), plus those who do not fend for themselves don't get to repeat the costs. or to breed.

Don't like the risks? don't do it. (of course that would require folk to a) realise that some things in life involve Risk and b) assess the Risks).

Want Risk free excitement?. Go to Disneyland.
I agree 100%. A small town in England, I believe that's where it was located, that improved traffic and drivers attitudes toward each other by removing ALL the traffic control lights and signs. Seems the folks tended to cooperate with each other at a higher level when there was no outside controls.

Do you supposed that power boaters would be more apt to really reduce their wake in the absence of signs? I doubt it? But possibly more boaters would be out looking to help each other if they knew they were the only help available. Offshore? You're on your own. I did read of an ocean voyager who purposely carried no distress signaling devices saying that he didn't want to rely on outside help.
__________________
Randy

Cape Dory 25D Seraph
rtbates is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2007, 12:51   #20
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtbates
But possibly more boaters would be out looking to help each other if they knew they were the only help available. Offshore? You're on your own. I did read of an ocean voyager who purposely carried no distress signaling devices saying that he didn't want to rely on outside help.
I must confess I would not go quite that far or turn down the option of help! My principles tend to be quite flexible, when required

I think the "law of sea" (unwritten) says that you at least try to help out yer fellow mariner, cos' one day it could be you...........whether a Govt says so or not. BUT I will add that from my experiances over the years the nearer you are to a Marina, the less likely folk are to be helpful.
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2007, 17:30   #21
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,037
Mike-
"they were set up to protect the coast from invaders." Byeond what Coot said, the USCG to this very day is NOT A MILITARY BRANCH. They are an administrative agency, which is re-assigned to the DoD and placed on military status only after a formal declaration of war. Ask around and try to find out when the US was last formally in a state of war--which requires a formal declaration of war by Congress. I'm not sure if the invasion of Grenada qualifies, but Korea, Vietnam, and the recent mess in Iran are all (surprise) not wars.
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2007, 00:47   #22
Registered User
 
coot's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 367
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey
Probably the safest AND cheapest long term approach for any Country is not to provide any SAR.

Folk will have to fend for themselves and this will cut down the numbers in trouble due to those unwilling / unable to proceed without a safety net (whether real or perceived), plus those who do not fend for themselves don't get to repeat the costs. or to breed.
Would you make the same argument for the ambulance service, fire department, or police on land? If not, what is the difference?
__________________
Mark S.
coot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2007, 02:26   #23
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by coot
Would you make the same argument for the ambulance service, fire department, or police on land? If not, what is the difference?
I guess that Fire, Police and Ambulance being on land is provided for all folk, whereas those at sea CHOOSE to go. I appreciate that attitudes vary and I am not arguing that one is 100% more "right" than the other.

Regarding charging for rescue, the French are known for this - albeit I do not know the exact circumstances of when and how they charge - I don't think they always charge. But when I had few problems mid English Channel enroute to France, I was very happy that the problems were nearer the English side so that their was never any risk of a large bill appearing.

(BTW we didn't need any SAR in the end - it was "just" engine troubles on a totally wind less day on the edge of the shipping lanes where we could see how things may develop.........and that if we had ended up in the shipping lanes, a tow out of the lanes before nightfall would have been "nice" .........before we encountered a Container ship and needed a helicopter )
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2007, 02:34   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: cairns australia
Boat: now floating easy37
Posts: 636
Images: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike d.
they were set up to protect the coast from invaders. i know everyone knows this!
this would seem contrary to those lovely pictures at the end of the movie about the heli divers(the guardian it think) that showed men in ol souwesters posing in front of the jolly (little) lifeboat as the lifeboat would seem somewhat inadequate to protect the coast from invaders and only slightly more believeable for the purposes of rescuing someone
sean
__________________
northerncat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2007, 05:20   #25
Moderator Emeritus
 
Pblais's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hayes, VA
Boat: Gozzard 36
Posts: 8,700
Images: 15
Send a message via Skype™ to Pblais
Quote:
I think. But then again does that mean that most of you assume that increased regulations are an inevitable outcome? I don't want that myself. I sail for the freedom from such.
If you have other needs then I'm not sure you will find them. While you can run you can't hide. You will be some place sooner or later. They may have different ideas than you do. You may be seeking something that never existed. As far as I can tell sailing for fun is about as much as you can expect and if you are lucky.

Quote:
The only action that I see that could have a positive outcome would be to try and educate the less informed BEFORE they get in over their heads
The best effort to date is the USCG Auxiliary. They do conduct active patrols, sponsor classes, offer free inspections, assist the USCG, and a host of other things. Perhaps you feel they are not up to the task and that somehow we need something new? It's all volunteer.

The process of rescuing people is not just a simple task of showing up. We have quite a few members here that have found out the hard way it's not something you can do without special training and equip met. Setting up even a tow line when the wind is blowing can be a very difficult task. In most any foul weather the risks become huge.

Efforts like these take serious organization and training.
__________________
Paul Blais
s/v Bright Eyes Gozzard 36
37 15.7 N 76 28.9 W
Pblais is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2007, 07:53   #26
Registered User
 
swagman's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Winter land based UK New Forest. Summer months away. Making the transition from sail to power this year - scary stuff.
Boat: Super Van Craft 1320 Power Yacht
Posts: 2,175
Images: 10
Send a message via Skype™ to swagman
I'm one of those with only experience as my qualifications - but they are going to become mandatory one day - for sure.

30 years back a big boat was 30 foot - and relatively cost a small fortune.
Most people worked too hard to consider sailing as a sport.
World cruising meant learning celestial navigation and all that magic - hence were few and far between.
Racing took super yachts and multiple crews - all v. expensive.

Today you can go buy a 50 foot boat for maybe a years wages.
You can hand hold a GPS and aim for an isaland across the Atlantic with accuracy - for $100.
You can competiviely race a small yacht for minimal cost.
And more fit people are retiring earlier, and have both time and dosh to enjoy something other than landside life.

Hence many more sailors.
Hence more idiots also.
Hence more accidents.
Hence more policing.
Hence more licensing.

I actually think overall there's more good than bad for all communities in these developments - despite the fact I really still can't be arrrsed to get any qualifications on paper.

But one day soon - someones going to force me and you - to go get them.

Cheers
JOHN
__________________
Don't take life too seriously. No ones going to make it out alive......Go see our blog at http://www.sailblogs.com/member/yachtswagman/
swagman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2007, 09:21   #27
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,525
Ahhh... good general statstical approach, John. Makes perfect sense. Although... the 50 foot boat you can buy on a year's wages (USA wages) is from the time period 30 years ago you mention. ha ha ha
__________________
ssullivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2007, 09:47   #28
Moderator Emeritus
 
Pblais's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hayes, VA
Boat: Gozzard 36
Posts: 8,700
Images: 15
Send a message via Skype™ to Pblais
I suppose if you had a really good year.
__________________
Paul Blais
s/v Bright Eyes Gozzard 36
37 15.7 N 76 28.9 W
Pblais is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2007, 10:22   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssullivan
Ahhh... good general statstical approach, John. Makes perfect sense. Although... the 50 foot boat you can buy on a year's wages (USA wages) is from the time period 30 years ago you mention. ha ha ha
Whats wrong with a 33 year old boat? It's easy to upgrade systems and if the boat is well built it'll last a long time.

__________________
Joli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2007, 10:52   #30
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
33 years old?! what is she?
__________________

David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:55.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.