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Old 24-12-2018, 05:57   #91
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Re: Tenders- what do you use?

Does anyone have plans for/know of a plywood-built catamaran dinghy/tender. I've seen some around, but not often. As I recall, they were about 10'LOA, were very stable, and carried alot; I don't know how they would handle waves/rougher water.
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Old 24-12-2018, 10:10   #92
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Re: Tenders- what do you use?

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Does anyone have plans for/know of a plywood-built catamaran dinghy/tender. I've seen some around, but not often. As I recall, they were about 10'LOA, were very stable, and carried alot; I don't know how they would handle waves/rougher water.


I ran across on called magic carpet on YouTube. https://youtu.be/SA6cDk2Imb0
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Old 25-12-2018, 09:23   #93
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Re: Tenders- what do you use?

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Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
Wow must have been some storm.
We have a 14 ft wide body aluminium with a 30hp motor that we usually lift.
Its been at the end of its line with 80 knots of wind and torrential rain and came through it fine.
Near on 700lb of weight keeps it well planted.


If you went to bed and everything was fine perhaps excessive rain during the night was an issue?
Ours has an electric bilgepump to keep any water at bay



That would have blown around like a kite at the end of a string.
It didn't rain hardly at all that night..It did night before & water was not in the boat after dark but the wind was at the time I checked was just after it slacked up at 53 knot,I know it was harder but don't have any numbers. ..it was 4 or 5 ft waves & I could see the bow Goin pretty high but I didn't see that coming. ..I am thinking not alot of weight in it.....I shouldn't have bailed all the water out but I was worried we would get more rain ...I think some ballast of some sort would have made the difference. Mind you this is not a light system. It has an aluminum false floor with an extended front deck that makes the nose a bit heavier. It gives me a little larger platform to throw a bait net but it does not extend outside the perimeter of the hull at all so that could not have helped to blow it over. That was just a serious amount of wind guys that seriously makes me reconsider my choice of tender.
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Old 25-12-2018, 09:32   #94
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Re: Tenders- what do you use?

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Originally Posted by longjonsilver View Post
i have been thinking along these lines as well. Woods' 8' Crayfish yacht tender makes the most sense to me for many of us. Float tubes on the sides make for both stability and ease of rowing.

Sailing Catamarans - Crayfish 8ft yacht tender

I have a cardboard model of the Crayfish hanging on my wall. It has very sensible dimensions.... 2.5 sheets of plywood, 40 lbs weight, and extremely simple construction. The bottom is one piece, and slotted up front to allow a V bottom forward so it won't tend to pound. The pram bow makes sense for maximum capacity, and the broad flat bottom makes for great stability. The max width across the bottom is 1.2 M (47.25") giving lots of space. It's 37" at the transom, and a bit over 28" at the bow. It seems just a tad too short for serious sailing.

The real advantage of the Crayfish is cheapness....I could build one for under $300 using the inexpensive fir marine plywood I can get locally (3 ply) at $50 per sheet, and the basic hull could go together in a day I suspect (bottom, sides, bow, and transom stitched and filleted). I'm tempted to gather some used cheap trailerhouse paneling, and seal it with penetrating epoxy, and build one out of that just for the heck of it to play with. Leave the paneling looking just like what it is..... Make things look just a bit sloppy........ what better insurance is there against theft than to make it look like cheap junk. Kind of like that old Fairlane I built up many years ago as a sleeper.... a few dents here and there, crappy paint, hiding a 429 Thunderbird Special hopped to the gills. High performance cam masked with Rhodes lifters, and quiet exhaust with cut outs.... Made to smoke the hot rod kids, but look like junk..... It was junk except the engine and transmission.



A very functional sailing dinghy / tender that doesn't look like much of anything, and costs next to nothing to build, is exactly what I want.


The Woods Duo is a better performer, but I don't think it's as stable to get in and out of. The little catamaran tender someone posted a link to looks like about the best for stability.



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Old 25-12-2018, 13:15   #95
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Re: Tenders- what do you use?

Another note on the Woods Duo dinghy. It forms the basis of the Tryst trimaran, which uses two deep V amas which are very light weight. The whole boat can be built from 3 sheets of plywood... amas of 3mm or 4mm. The cross beams are simply lashed to the gunnels. The Duo itself is designed to use a some inflatable boat rollers outboard for additional stability, either set right against the gunnels or set out a short distance giving room to hike out when sailing. The amas or course are set farther out in the trimaran configuration, and are longer and streamlined for decent sailing performance. It's really a rather versatile dinghy.



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Old 26-12-2018, 04:57   #96
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Re: Tenders- what do you use?

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A very functional sailing dinghy / tender that doesn't look like much of anything, and costs next to nothing to build, is exactly what I want.


The Woods Duo is a better performer, but I don't think it's as stable to get in and out of. The little catamaran tender someone posted a link to looks like about the best for stability.
i spent the better part of yesterday researching dinghys. i was fascinated with the Duo, until i too realized that it would be tippy without the floats. i am now investigating building a (modified) Penguin whose plans are available free at International Penguin Class Dinghy Association . i grew up sailing a fiberglass Penguin so i know how she would perform in waves. Gotta keep the weight down tho, as they are about 140 lbs - i assume with sailing rig n all the stuff. i would borrow some of the Duo ideas like the seat in the stern, and the decked bow, both of which would be for bouyancy. Using stitch n glue, i think that the 1/4" ply could be tortured for the bottom, and would require less than 3 sheets of 24lbs each. Perhaps one or more sheets could be 4mm instead, to save weight. With stitch n glue, i think that many of the wood interior pieces would not be needed. The transom could be reinforced to take a motor. As i am looking to buy a Searunner 40, there would be plenty of deck space and ease of pulling her up on deck.
jon
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Old 26-12-2018, 08:44   #97
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Re: Tenders- what do you use?

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Originally Posted by longjonsilver View Post
i spent the better part of yesterday researching dinghys. i was fascinated with the Duo, until i too realized that it would be tippy without the floats. i am now investigating building a (modified) Penguin whose plans are available free at International Penguin Class Dinghy Association . i grew up sailing a fiberglass Penguin so i know how she would perform in waves. Gotta keep the weight down tho, as they are about 140 lbs - i assume with sailing rig n all the stuff. i would borrow some of the Duo ideas like the seat in the stern, and the decked bow, both of which would be for bouyancy. Using stitch n glue, i think that the 1/4" ply could be tortured for the bottom, and would require less than 3 sheets of 24lbs each. Perhaps one or more sheets could be 4mm instead, to save weight. With stitch n glue, i think that many of the wood interior pieces would not be needed. The transom could be reinforced to take a motor. As i am looking to buy a Searunner 40, there would be plenty of deck space and ease of pulling her up on deck.
jon

I don't see the inflatable rollers / outriggers as a liability.... With these installed it's nearly impossible to capsize it.... Look at the videos of capsize tests..... He has to stand on the float tube, and almost pull the boat over to get it to capsize. Note that there are two positions.... One is tied directly to the side of the boat, and the other is on a short extension which appears to act as a very effective stabilizer / outrigger for sailing. The very nice sailing ability afforded by this second setup makes for a pretty ideal tender for exploring when you are at anchor somewhere, and the full trimaran amas make it into a very capable day tripper, or potentially a viable "life dinghy" for maximum 2 people.... if one added a shelter system of some sort... It'd survive some pretty serious weather I suspect.

I'm an admirer of Jim Brown's designs myself, but the SR40 is HUGE, and the ones that would make sense for me in terms of size (solo), do not have near the payload to be viable for voyaging.... The 34 is the only one that would come close to the mark for me. I also have some concern about the forward facing rear companionway and spray.



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Old 26-12-2018, 15:23   #98
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Re: Tenders- what do you use?

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I don't see the inflatable rollers / outriggers as a liability....

I'm an admirer of Jim Brown's designs myself, but the SR40 is HUGE, and the ones that would make sense for me in terms of size (solo), do not have near the payload to be viable for voyaging....
i didn't mean to imply that the inflatable rollers are liabilities, sorry for not being more clear. i am very interested in the inflatable rollers, i think that that bridges the gap with the deflatables, allowing one to have the best of both worlds: the security of the deflatable for boarding, swimming, and diving, and the ability to row/sail for the hard bottom rigid dinghy. i merely meant that i wanted more stability without the inflatable rollers.

i certainly understand the concerns about payload with the Brown trimarans. That is indeed a factor. i want to sail all over the world so i want the larger boat. i feel that the sailplan is the limiting factor with the Brown trimarans and the working sailplan of the SR40 is only slightly larger than recommended for single handlers. The Searunners are extremely well set up for single handed sailing, and with the centerboard, they should handle well upwind, and in tite quarter manoeuvering as well.

i am still studying the plans for the Penguin dinghy, and i have located some cardboard that i plan on using to make a full sized model. i will have to adapt the plans to stitch and glue, which means eliminating or downsizing some of the ribs, and as partial recompense, making the thwart into a rigid structural watertite compartment amidships suitable for rowing. In addition enclosing the two forward stations (or a little less) with a rigid deck and bulkhead to make a watertite compartment. The rear station will be another watertite compartment doubling as a seat for use of the Penguin as a motorboat. This will make 3 watertite compartments for floatation where my old Penguin had none. i know from personal experience that the Penguin becomes bow heavy when swamped due to the weight of the mast on the forepeak. i want to eliminate that, and will try to enclose a mast step that does not compromise the watertite integrity of the forward compartment. i plan on using a windsurfer mast and sail for the rig of the Penguin tender. A simple rope on the transom will suffice for a traveler. Instead of a heavy centerboard case, which also causes turbulence below, i plan on using a daggerboard held in place by the thwart, and will build the daggerboard trunk during construction of the thwart, but not cut the holes in the top or bottom until such time as i am ready to use as a sailboat. The transom will have to be reinforced to take a small outboard motor. In line with the thesis that the tender must not be too visible to thieves, and old Johnson or Evinrude motor are cheap and parts are abundant, while not being too desirable like a Yamaha. i plan on painting her a dull grey color so she's not too pretty.
Just my current thots.
jon
edit: the thwart is just forward of station 5 and the centerboard is just aft of station 3, so the idea of a daggerboard thru the thwart wont work. Leeboards will have to be considered instead.
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Old 27-12-2018, 05:06   #99
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Re: Tenders- what do you use?

Hi longjonsilver the dinghy sounds good. I would definitely go 4mm in the ply for the topsides at least. I do like the duo from Richard Woods and he is one of the masters of plywood stitch and glue, and his designs are very functional. Also the idea of a tri on a tri gives me the warm fuzzies, yeah it doesnt take much does it, but you know what forrests mama said, simple is as simple does.
As for the rig i feel you are doing yourself a disservice if you dont look at the hobie bravo/adventure island free standing furling and reefing fully battened rig. You really need to look at it on youtube if considering a sailing tender. Imagine coming alongside with a wishbone windsurfer rig in a bit of wind versus having the ability to furl in about 3 seconds or less. I had an adventure island from hobie and the rigs are great. They dont have the most efficient sail shape although they are still good but the functionality of the rig is unbeatable. Nothing else ive seen comes close. You can actually sail right up to your boat and furl in an instant. For that matter you could use a set of their pedal drives too, that would be an awesome idea in say the duo. There are pedal based propeller drives that may be better. The ability to just pop the rig out with the sail furled around it is great as well, this actually makes a sailing tender quite feasible for everyday use. You can come alongside with your sail furled and not worry about any problems with the rig alongside. Maybe Richard might like to investigate that type of rig for you.
I would highly recommend doing a foam core dinghy rather than a ply stitch and glue. The foam version will be more buoyant if you use a thicker core so no need for the same volume of bouyancy chambers if indeed any. Also no need for any extraneous structure such as ribs frames extra bulkheads etc. This simplifies construction and helps reduce weight. The ply would be around the same weight or slightly lighter however the foam will never rot. If cruising in the tropics then i would definitely use foam. You pay more for foam and save a bit on resin but the end result really is a lot more durable in my experience. If you get a pinhole somewhere in your ply dinghy, and you will, then fresh water will get in. Once you get spores in ply its pretty much all over bar the shouting if you are in the tropics. You really have to be vigilant. Foam core is not bulletproof either by any stretch of the imagination but in the tropics it is the best compromise between weight durability and strength in my experience. As we get a little older our sweat equity and time become much more valuable. Do it once and do it right, and its one less concern maintenance wise.
You will damage your tender at some stage it is just the nature of the game, the ease and durability of repair is very important. A guy in cairns australia who has one of my dinghys built in a good quality ply has been doing major rebuilds seemingly every year. The cost in both materials and time is horrendous, talk about a false economy. He has spent twice as much as a foam version already in material costs not to mention time. The dinghy is left on crowded dinghy docks regularly and that is part of cruising for all of us. Boat wakes, small chop and disembarking from one dinghy to another and pushing through dinghys to get to the dock means a lot of contact between vessels of all types. Not to mention the utterly inconsiderate morons that tie up short, or worse, who lock their dinghy on a short painter, usually cable or chain, and leave it there for weeks. GGRRRRRRHH. The upside of the duo is its so light you may not need to use a dinghy dock, maybe you can just pick it up and walk away with it. Again this is age and health dependent. Ply is definitely the best option in some situations however in the tropics im not convinced.
I would definitely go ply before an inflatable as it would be far more durable and far less expensive. Not to mention lighter and it would actually row. Never underestimate the importance of a good functional tender on a cruising boat, it can make or break your cruising lifestyle. Weight is one of the most important factors to consider in a tender I think, even moreso than durability. In fact it could be argued that lightweight construction adds to the durability and longevity of your tender because you will pull it up every night and you will take it up above the high water mark instead of leaving it to bounce around in the shallows.
Theres a multitude of options and the real art here is to taylor the dinghy to your requirements not the other way around. The less compromises you have to make due to the inadequacies of your dinghy, and they ALL have them, then the more enjoyable the cruising experience will be.
Goodluck!!!
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Old 27-12-2018, 07:39   #100
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Re: Tenders- what do you use?

Thanks Sailhand. Its just that i'm fascinated by the idea of stitch n glue, and it really seems so easy to build in it. i have done some work in fibreglass and i dread doing it again. Foam core mite or mite not be easier than solid glass, dunno. I like working with wood and am lured in by tales of quick building like with Duo at the wooden boat festival.
i certainly will investigate the Hobie Bravo rig, it looks appealing as well.
In any case, i had an idea for the daggerboard for the Penguin tender. Start the daggerboard at the thwart, but angle it FORWARD so that its center of lateral plane is closer to that of the centerboard. And, like the centerboard, the center of lateral plane moves aft as the board is raised. The Duo is a nice boat as well, but i was considering making a 6/5ths version to give 12' length. The Penguin tender, however, is already properly proportioned.
blessings
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Old 27-12-2018, 08:37   #101
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Re: Tenders- what do you use?

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Hi longjonsilver the dinghy sounds good. I would definitely go 4mm in the ply for the topsides at least. I do like the duo from Richard Woods and he is one of the masters of plywood stitch and glue, and his designs are very functional. Also the idea of a tri on a tri gives me the warm fuzzies, yeah it doesnt take much does it, but you know what forrests mama said, simple is as simple does.
As for the rig i feel you are doing yourself a disservice if you dont look at the hobie bravo/adventure island free standing furling and reefing fully battened rig. You really need to look at it on youtube if considering a sailing tender. Imagine coming alongside with a wishbone windsurfer rig in a bit of wind versus having the ability to furl in about 3 seconds or less. I had an adventure island from hobie and the rigs are great. They dont have the most efficient sail shape although they are still good but the functionality of the rig is unbeatable. Nothing else ive seen comes close. You can actually sail right up to your boat and furl in an instant. For that matter you could use a set of their pedal drives too, that would be an awesome idea in say the duo. There are pedal based propeller drives that may be better. The ability to just pop the rig out with the sail furled around it is great as well, this actually makes a sailing tender quite feasible for everyday use. You can come alongside with your sail furled and not worry about any problems with the rig alongside. Maybe Richard might like to investigate that type of rig for you.
I would highly recommend doing a foam core dinghy rather than a ply stitch and glue. The foam version will be more buoyant if you use a thicker core so no need for the same volume of bouyancy chambers if indeed any. Also no need for any extraneous structure such as ribs frames extra bulkheads etc. This simplifies construction and helps reduce weight. The ply would be around the same weight or slightly lighter however the foam will never rot. If cruising in the tropics then i would definitely use foam. You pay more for foam and save a bit on resin but the end result really is a lot more durable in my experience. If you get a pinhole somewhere in your ply dinghy, and you will, then fresh water will get in. Once you get spores in ply its pretty much all over bar the shouting if you are in the tropics. You really have to be vigilant. Foam core is not bulletproof either by any stretch of the imagination but in the tropics it is the best compromise between weight durability and strength in my experience. As we get a little older our sweat equity and time become much more valuable. Do it once and do it right, and its one less concern maintenance wise.
You will damage your tender at some stage it is just the nature of the game, the ease and durability of repair is very important. A guy in cairns australia who has one of my dinghys built in a good quality ply has been doing major rebuilds seemingly every year. The cost in both materials and time is horrendous, talk about a false economy. He has spent twice as much as a foam version already in material costs not to mention time. The dinghy is left on crowded dinghy docks regularly and that is part of cruising for all of us. Boat wakes, small chop and disembarking from one dinghy to another and pushing through dinghys to get to the dock means a lot of contact between vessels of all types. Not to mention the utterly inconsiderate morons that tie up short, or worse, who lock their dinghy on a short painter, usually cable or chain, and leave it there for weeks. GGRRRRRRHH. The upside of the duo is its so light you may not need to use a dinghy dock, maybe you can just pick it up and walk away with it. Again this is age and health dependent. Ply is definitely the best option in some situations however in the tropics im not convinced.
I would definitely go ply before an inflatable as it would be far more durable and far less expensive. Not to mention lighter and it would actually row. Never underestimate the importance of a good functional tender on a cruising boat, it can make or break your cruising lifestyle. Weight is one of the most important factors to consider in a tender I think, even moreso than durability. In fact it could be argued that lightweight construction adds to the durability and longevity of your tender because you will pull it up every night and you will take it up above the high water mark instead of leaving it to bounce around in the shallows.
Theres a multitude of options and the real art here is to taylor the dinghy to your requirements not the other way around. The less compromises you have to make due to the inadequacies of your dinghy, and they ALL have them, then the more enjoyable the cruising experience will be.
Goodluck!!!



A new Chinese manufactured PVC construction foam is being imported to the US now that is comparable (so they say) to Divinicell, and half the price..... It's called Stru-Cell, and is supplied by a company in Fla. Google it. It's available in P60 (4.1 pcf) ...P80,p100,p130, all the way to P200 (12.5 pcf). Also grooved and drilled are available for infusion.



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Old 27-12-2018, 08:53   #102
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Re: Tenders- what do you use?

I'm just now building up a dinghy for my sailboat. Length 295cm and 120cm beam. The bottom 10mm douglas fir strips and sides 8mm PVC foam, a couple of layers of 300gsm biax over and one layer in. Must upload some photos later..
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Old 27-12-2018, 09:46   #103
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Re: Tenders- what do you use?

suggestions for DIY nesting designs?

Any optimized for rowing, but also good for sailing?
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Old 27-12-2018, 10:22   #104
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Re: Tenders- what do you use?

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suggestions for DIY nesting designs?

Any optimized for rowing, but also good for sailing?
i was planning on building this one when i was interested in monohulls:

Chameleon

Every winter i need to get all the sun i can. Every day that there is sun, i put on ski clothes and sit in my Adirondack chair with my face in the sun. Keeps the colds. the flu and that terrible gastro away. Anyway, i was sitting there and i was thinking about dinghy damage at dinghy docks and i was sitting on a foam pad to keep my bum warm, when the thot hit me that a dinghy could be lined inside and out with foam pads. This could have the added benefit of making the dinghy very undesirable to thieves. What kind of glue would attach foam pads (in this case sold for childrens rooms floor covering with interlocking edges)????? Rather than foam core, this would be foam paint.

blessings
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Old 27-12-2018, 13:50   #105
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Re: Tenders- what do you use?

Beautiful!

Or just make it out of Divinicell core, laminated with closed cell foam, all encapsulated in epoxy, or something more flexible. . .

?
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