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Old 23-09-2013, 05:31   #796
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Originally Posted by Mark Johnson View Post
You need to read my various posts again... No one is railing against anchored out liveaboards! It is THESE anchored out liveaboards.

The crowded anchorage problem in Oriental has been 99% non existent, before these three boats moved in there for good. The OP has repeatedly misrepresented the "facts". In fact, I never have failed to find a spot there in previous years, before these three boats moved in. It was sometimes crowded, but if we were all laying to one hook, it was always doable.

The current boats in question are occupying a space NORMALLY large enough for 6 or 7 boats, due to the multi anchor moorings they have set. The 99% of boats that are passing through and lay to one hook, can no longer anchor in there without fouling the "permanents" multiple lines, running across the bottom. The new hypothetical transients can't even anchor anywhere near the "anarchist three", because they may then swing into the "moored" boats, which, due to having several hooks out, will swing in a far smaller circle. (We have 180 degree wind shifts here all the time)!

Like I said, the OP is making it up as he goes along... There have been a FEW boats who did the same sort of thing as this over the 7 years we've been here, so that might make 5 or even 8 out of hundreds, if not thousands of boats... FAR less than 1% of them.

To say it is inevitable makes no sense. Does that mean give in to it? Most folks here have enough common sense not to "squat" in a small transient courtesy anchorage.

This is not about liveaboards or their rights, like I repeatedly pointed out. I SUPPORT ANCHORING OUT RIGHTS 100%! It is about consideration and common sense. This is the wrong place for what they're doing. NO ONE has the absolute right to anchor where ever they please. (Try it in ANY channel, or next to the aircraft carriers in Norfolk)!

Really, it is not about legalities, it is about you as the person anchoring getting YOUR needs met in a way that doesn't infringe on others' rights in the process.

Yes... It is OK for "me" to do it responsibly, just like anyone else... responsibly. Forget the who, and focus on the how...

For one thing, (on the US east coast), being a long term liveaboard anywhere above Titusville Florida, (which I previously described in detail), is BRUTAL in the winter. This is even more true up here! It may get down into the teens.

IF one wants to go for it here anyway, then they need to pick an "appropriate" spot.

RESPONSIBLE ANCHORED OUT LIVEABOARD:

First... They need a LARGE roomy anchorage with a marina close by, that offers anchored out services, like a pumpout dock or possibly even a pump out boat, like in Titusville.

This hypothetical marina ALSO offers fuels & propane, parking spaces for your car or bike, showers, mail drop, dinghy dock, and maybe even has a small attached grocery store.

Anchored in THIS sort of spot, you are getting YOUR needs met, while being legal, responsible, and considerate in every respect. You are not landing your dink on public or private land, nor locking up your bike there. You are renting this sort of space... it's yours! You are also not contributing to the water pollution problem, (as trivial as it may be in the overall picture)... You are also NOT keeping anyone else from using the anchorage!

Now, if you have a sound boat with WELL MAINTAINED ground tackle, set so well that it is up to AT LEAST 80 mph winds... Then, that is being a responsible liveaboard. I estimate that I have had that much wind or more about 100 times over 40 years, and anchored a sistership in a catagory 4.

A lot of marinas offer these services to "responsible" liveaboards, with reasonable fees well under $100/month, perhaps closer to half that!

The anchorage in Oriental was never envisioned other than as an extension of the 2 boat free dock. The anchorage and the free dinghy dock there is a courtesy to "transients", because the town is situated right at a double cross roads. It is the only logical "provisioning" ICW stop over spot within a day, AND is also the logical stop over spot for boats heading out into Pamlico Sound from New Bern, several hours up the Neuse River.

The marina near this anchorage does NOT offer the liveaboard services I previously mentioned, because it is not that type of marina, it's private. This is therefore, exactly what I said, the worst possible anchorage for a person to long term stay in, much less THREE of them, with their ground tackle all over the place on the bottom.

Along with their regularly shitting in the slow flowing (already polluted) Neuse River, what these folks are doing is the HEIGHT of irresponsible, inconsiderate behavior. Their poor judgement and excesses cut down on the anchoring rights that I BELIEVE IN and we all want to continue to have.

As the world becomes even more overpopulated, we will loose more and more of these freedoms over time. Why speed things up? The best DEfense against these inevitable things, is to keep a low profile, and "be of no OFfense".

With the exception of once when anchored in Trinidad, (which is another story)... In almost 3,000 nights on the hook, (in over 20 countries), no one EVER complained about the anchoring out that "I" did. It isn't the who, like I said, it's the how & where.

Btw... If you want to be perceived by the land dwellers as a responsible person who just prefers to live anchored out, vs being a "dirt bag", appearances matter! It doesn't take much to have your boat AT LEAST look good when viewed from a quarter mile away through binoculars. That is NOT a high degree of spiff!

Mark
Wow I missed all this before so now that I have seen it let me pick this apart with the truth point by point. First off I see you have accused me of dumping. I would love to see you know a little proof,, What you have none? There are more then a few places around my boat you are free to put a camera, as a matter of fact Town dock has a camera pointed at it 24/7, and I know of at lest 2 others who had cameras set up that gave up BECAUSE I DON'T EVEN THROW MY CIGARETTE BUTS IN THE WATER!

Now lets get to my anchor(s) your not the first to run around claiming to know what I have on the bottom one clown in this thread was claiming there were permanent mornings down and when confronted said they have been there for months, so that made them permanent, Wow. So your the next expert on my tackle now So please tell me what is my scope, how many anchors do I have down 1, 2, 3, more? Do I have any catenary weights, and what size(s) are/is my anchor(s). Let me guess you have no idea. Other then the fact I have 2 lines going to a swivel and a single chain you don't know do you? But yet once again you claim to be another expert on my boat, and/or tackle.

As for you not liking the way it looks, it may not look like some of the high dollar boats you and your Dock commando buddies buy but I slept soundly when sandy brushed us, and that boat didn't move in that 50-60+ mile an hour day long blow last spring.

The funny thing is people give you credibility when you are just saying what you believe to be true with 0 facts.
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Old 23-09-2013, 06:08   #797
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Originally Posted by Sand Castle View Post
You failed to quote his real point, however...
I think most would find it very welcome to see a limit of 1 or 2 weeks imposed (with leniency for those making immediate repairs).

Every long term “floating house” or “convenient place to store my boat” you ask to relocate to one of the many viable anchorages nearby (but not walking distance to the restaurants and downtown businesses) means several dozen more cruising boats per year, who will be spending money in your town and falling it love with it rather then bypassing it.

If the anchorage was not so tiny it would not be an issue, but the limited room makes it a real problem.

...that the anchorage needs limits because people are taking advantage of the town's courtesy that does not currently impose a limit.

But thanks to the long term anchorers, they probably will.
Mostly because I tend to ignore really bad math in a harbor that's full maybe 4 to 5 weeks out of the year. So you free up one spot, and say none of the boats passing through that anchor stay for more then a night? Ya maybe that would work out to almost be 30 boats, but that's somewhat unrealistic, and really another in a line of strawman arguments. I love Cape dory guy's 'but not walking distance to the restaurants and downtown businesses' too, so greens creek on the other side of the bridge is not good enough I have to go way down it out of walking distance to town as well?
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The struggle against fascism and propaganda never ends...
Listen I am not the one who fights for a fun killing noise ordnance in the town, and then prints letters saying people need to set up speakers and treat Americans like dictators to quote "blast them out". So much for civilly-spoken points there. So don't run to me with holier than thou claims of fascism. Because rule #1 in almost any argument is the person who invokes Nazi's first is normally loosing.
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Old 23-09-2013, 06:27   #798
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

OK, so a report from the hot zone! Stood on the dingy dock and assessed the situation last night. Two visiting boats were anchored to the outside of those "permanently" anchored. At sunset, an additional boat tried to anchor in front of the OP. When we left, the captain appeared to be trying to decide what to do with limited water. The "French boat" is parallel to the channel and mostly in the channel, but our vantage point was from the other side of the anchorage.

It does appear that this anchorage could hold more boats if all were swinging on the usual and customary anchor set up. In spite of the reports that marinas are reducing staff and restaurants are closing, M and M's was doing the usual Sunday night business last night. And the food was delicious!
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Old 23-09-2013, 06:40   #799
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Originally Posted by KNoel View Post
OK, so a report from the hot zone! Stood on the dingy dock and assessed the situation last night. Two visiting boats were anchored to the outside of those "permanently" anchored. At sunset, an additional boat tried to anchor in front of the OP. When we left, the captain appeared to be trying to decide what to do with limited water. The "French boat" is parallel to the channel and mostly in the channel, but our vantage point was from the other side of the anchorage.

It does appear that this anchorage could hold more boats if all were swinging on the usual and customary anchor set up. In spite of the reports that marinas are reducing staff and restaurants are closing, M and M's was doing the usual Sunday night business last night. And the food was delicious!
M&M's did normal business, How can that be when the harbor is blockaded? But really all silyness aside The sea shanty is kind of closed and part of the reason M&M's did good is because there is one less restaurant open, and well they do have very good food. The french boat is where it is because one of the over nighters that dropped a hook Saturday night hooked his anchor line and set him adrift as they were pulling out yesterday. I don't know if it was an accident or intentional.


So what did you order?
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Old 23-09-2013, 07:44   #800
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

The corn crab chowder and a salad. YUM.
I wonder why people don't really anchor in front of the bridge anymore, on the town-side. When we stopped in here years ago, that is where we always anchored. I didn't think that the Sea Shanty was going to make it......it had a weird vibe to me and so-so food. Not a good combo.
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Old 23-09-2013, 08:21   #801
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Originally Posted by CatInHand View Post
Because classy people don't take advantage?
There's probably a lot of truth to your statement.

It's a question of cause and effect. While there are exceptions with people who just got a raw deal in life, good people skills are one of the best ways to secure a quality career. (Obviously talking averages not specific individuals)

So people with poor people skills tend to live on the margins in terms of employement and with their poor skills they tend to do poor job of dealing with others in an anchorage.

Middle class people tend to have better people skills so they do better financially and they also have a better view regarding how they impact others in an anchorage.

Of course, this is very hard to prove definitively and I'll probably be called evil but it makes a lot of sense.
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Old 23-09-2013, 09:30   #802
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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To be honest I have had thoughts about taking it to Georgia the you can live aboard for more then 90 days as long as you pay a marina state.
When we passed thru, we were informed, no liveaboard in Georgia at all, anchor or marina.
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Old 23-09-2013, 09:33   #803
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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love how you lump me in with the french boat.
So you thinking I am obnoxious is a matter of public record now?
I'm obnoxious too. So in my parlance, it's not quite an insult.

The reference is where you claim superior rights or privileges due to your veteran status and where rather than you using your own fair judgment to move around, someone has to come to you and beg nicely for you to move.

I'd call that a bit obnoxious.

My sin is I'm goading everyone a bit. (with detailed data perhaps, but still goading). So I'm a bit obnoxious as well.
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Old 23-09-2013, 09:40   #804
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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So don't run to me with holier than thou claims of fascism. Because rule #1 in almost any argument is the person who invokes Nazi's first is normally loosing.
Whoa Nellie! That's a high horse you're on there Goth!

Tongue. In. Cheek. If you would read the context.

Paranoia has taken hold perhaps?
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Old 23-09-2013, 09:42   #805
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
When we passed thru, we were informed, no liveaboard in Georgia at all, anchor or marina.
They have changed it so that under a very strict set of conditions you can get a waver one of them being living at a marina
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Old 23-09-2013, 09:47   #806
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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But really all silyness aside The sea shanty is kind of closed and part of the reason M&M's did good is because there is one less restaurant open, and well they do have very good food.
Read Yelp! - M&Ms is highly regarded based on food and service quality. And they have been for over 20 years. Other businesses that fail miss key things like timely service or consistently good food.

M&Ms has worked out this simple formula.
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Old 23-09-2013, 09:48   #807
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Whoa Nellie! That's a high horse you're on there Goth!

Tongue. In. Cheek. If you would read the context.

Paranoia has taken hold perhaps?
Not really but sure why not.
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Old 23-09-2013, 10:00   #808
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Originally Posted by KNoel View Post
The corn crab chowder and a salad. YUM.
I wonder why people don't really anchor in front of the bridge anymore, on the town-side. When we stopped in here years ago, that is where we always anchored. I didn't think that the Sea Shanty was going to make it......it had a weird vibe to me and so-so food. Not a good combo.
God the corn crab chowder is good there. I am not much of a leafy greens guy. Love their burgers though

They did in the spring, there were depending on the day 6 to 8 boats behind the breakwater and more out around the bridge. But you know hearing about that yesterday only served to remind me why I left the harbor 2 years ago. Most people I have seen drop hook in there are fairly skilled at anchoring but snowbird season without fail you get a few who are not, and in close quarters like that, it can be unforgiving. I have been bumped, dragged and almost hit in my dinghy but on the creek out of the few I have seen go under the bridge they seem to all of had good boating skills. Maybe that's luck i don't know
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Old 23-09-2013, 10:05   #809
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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I'm obnoxious too. So in my parlance, it's not quite an insult.

The reference is where you claim superior rights or privileges due to your veteran status and where rather than you using your own fair judgment to move around, someone has to come to you and beg nicely for you to move.

I'd call that a bit obnoxious.

My sin is I'm goading everyone a bit. (with detailed data perhaps, but still goading). So I'm a bit obnoxious as well.
Where have i claimed superior rights or privileges anyplace?
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Old 23-09-2013, 10:19   #810
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Okay that sounds cool to me Maybe if we are lucky the Steamer will still be open, they have pool tables there.
Two out of three for the anchoring spot?
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