More Georgia Law

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Strygaldwir

Doesn't the same rational apply to Mobile homes? So, by any reasonable application of logic there should be a thirty day restriction on living in a mobile home, park or otherwise?

For all of the reasons stated above. And that is a difficult precedent.

[nautical62]

Originally Posted by Strygaldwir

Doesn't the same rational apply to Mobile homes? So, by any reasonable application of logic there should be a thirty day restriction on living in a mobile home, park or otherwise?

RVs are probably a more applicable analogy and I do think there are places wanting to restrict their long term stays as well. It helps the RV crowd that the vast majority of them are reasonably well to do retirees that have political clout. Cruisers are not the same.

Mobile homes are probably more analogous to houseboats. I know for sure that many more affluent communities have taken steps to get rid of mobile home parks in their communities.

[Captain Bill]

Unfortunately I don't believe that either the RV or mobile home analogy apply. The reason is primarily that your boat is sitting in public waters, somewhat analogous to being parked on the street. I would dare say you could not find a community where one could park their RV or Mobile home on a public street and live in it even if you were parked on the street in front of land you owned. This would not be possible even if once a week you drove it to a pumpout station. There are a couple of "inland" marinas in NC where the bottom and the water are "owned by the marina". In this case these marinas were constructed by digging a hole inland then digging a canal to the bay. There are still arguments being made by some that the "water" in these marinas is still public, even though the bottom is definitely private. The thing that protects people who are anchored out is that they are considered as in navigation which restricts what the state can do to them. Unfortunately as soon as you tie up to a dock you are no longer in navigation and the state/locals can pretty much screw with you as they wish.

Don't get me wrong, I think the GA law is a bad law and sets a bad precident. I hope that other states don't follow their lead. It's not clear to me that the 30 days is even required to be in GA waters. In this case a long term cruiser who has spent 6 weeks on their boat in the bahamas would be in violation of GA law as soon as they entered GA waters even if they were only passing through. Florida's old houseboat definition of 21 days was written this way too, though I don't believe it was ever enforced that way.

[mholubec]

I am streching here but..... the way i am guessing is that if the State allowed liveabords then the state and counties are worried about what taxes they might miss out on, Property,IE City, County, School.
My Wife and I live in town currently and are seriousley looking to a move to a marina , the Tax savings would if not partially then completely pay for a pretty nice sailboat. But again the liveabords are their own class. i am in prepraton to join.

[nautical62]

Originally Posted by mholubec

I am streching here but..... the way i am guessing is that if the State allowed liveabords then the state and counties are worried about what taxes they might miss out on...

I hear that argument a lot. It's actually a big issue where I live with vendors. It seems to me anyone who rents, pays it indirectly through their rent and landlord's (or marina owners) taxes. Many small business rent their space as do many apartment dwellers.

[Madwand]

Originally Posted by VERTIGO

This has been a bit of an eye opener, I think everyone on here is
fairly passionate about the “cruiser lifestyle” however I do not really see where it should come down to a zero regulation. If it were my State, which it happens to be, I don’t mind a bit of regulation.

“A man who doesn’t
stand for something will
fall for anything.” Peter Marshall

[Dockhead]

Although I am a libertarian, and a former instructor of constitutional law, I cannot say offhand whether this law is unconstitutional or not. To the extent that it is a regulation of public use of public waterways, if I had to guess I would say that it is probably within the state's power to regulate and not unconstitutional. Even if we're talking about private property in a marina, I think Cap'n Bill is right, and I think it's like zoning -- the state can prohibit you from living three families in one house if there's no multifamily zoning on your street, even on your private property. So it can likely prohibit you from living on your boat in a private marina on private property, too. They could even prohibit you from living in your boat on the hard -- they don't need any public water to do so, as long as you are in the territory and jurisdication of that state.

A different question is whether it is good policy or not. It is not good policy to restrict the rights of citizens to do as they please, if there is not a compelling public interest to do so. What is the compelling public interest to prohibit citizens from living on board their boats in marinas when they are paying for their slips and pumping out their sewage is impossible to see; I think this is ridiculous.

The right thing to do about is to make noise -- write to the governor. I'm going to.

[Strygaldwir]

My anology was to suggest that a boat and mobile home share so many of the same characteristics that it is very difficult to distinguish them from one another. Most boats can be loaded on a set of wheels/trailers and pulled to another location. Conditionally, both can be kept in undesireable conditions. If there is a state wide prohibition against one, it is only a very small degree that suggests there should or could be a statewide prohibition against the other!

[Rayallyn]

I ran into this problem back in the 80's while docked at private marina in Pawcatuck CT. They didn't want me or the other live aboard staying on our boats for more than three days at a time. Their logic was we were bums who refused to fit in with society and pay property taxes, etc. Because of the three day rule they tried to impose other boat owners mostly weekenders who sometimes came down for a week or two during the summer fought the law and the town finally gave in to not allowing living aboard for more than thirty consecutive days. The lawyer informed us that as long as we spent no more than 29 days onboard that we could stay. This was no problem as we cruised at least two weeks out of each month. I don't know what the law is there now but state law can say one thing and the town can impose another. If people just accept the law without fighting soon the boaters will have no rights and have living aboard outlawed or cruising confined to only the wealthy because the expense will be so high that only they can afford it.
Also, once a law or ordinance is stopped does not mean the threat is over. Losers often try get their way by re-writing and summiting the law or ordinance again.

[lorenzo b]

Is it really so hard to put yourself in the other person's shoes and see their side of this conflict?

[gonesail]

Originally Posted by lorenzo b

Marinas are for their yachts and sailboats to be used on weekends

that's not really true. i have lived in coastal georgia and seen the marinas and the so called yachts that are docked there.

[Rayallyn]

Lorenzo,
Putting yourself in other person's shoes is not the point here. The right of an individual or individuals to pursue their way of life is what is the question. There is no reason for not allowing liveaboards if they are not hurting anyone or the environment. What the matter comes down to is the selfishness of property owners, developers, and those who feel that everyone has to conform to the mainstream norm.
There are many people who believe that if you don not live as they do you are not a good Christian and a burden on society. What matters is the rights of the people given under the auspices of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Fancy lawyers and those in public office often try to twist the words to their own benefit.

[lorenzo b]

There are many marinas that allow and encourage liveaboards, most cities have special areas set aside for anchoring, and they are not hard to find. Other communities do not want people living in their boats in marinas. I have a boat at the town marina here in New Iberia, Louisiana. Here in Louisiana you can live in a hollow tree stump and marry your sister, but you can NOT live on your boat at the New Iberia marina. That was explained to me when I signed the rental agreement and I don't have a problem with that. Each and every community has the right to regulate housing and land use within general broad guidelines. Should you not believe so, may I suggest taking the matter to the courts. Wrapping yourself in the flag and babbling about the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is not persuasive.

[Captain Bill]

I notice that a lot of people are using the "government wants the tax" arguement. Does anyone know how boats are taxed in GA. In NC I pay the exact same rate as I would on real estate in personal property tax. NC of course does not prohibit liveaboards, though some individual marinas do. I know in Florida you do not pay property tax on boats but you do have to pay a registration fee similar to that on mobile homes.

[sundog]

I think the Georgia law and any other law restricting living aboard is total bs. I personally lived aboard in Georgia for over a year while saving money for a home and continue to violate the 30 day rule even though my home is complete. When I sell my home and move back aboard full time to save money for cruising I will welcome some DNR prick to hassle me. I'll be sure to make a really big deal about how the state is trying to force me into a homeless situation. I have no problem paying taxes or whatever to enjoy this beautiful state but if I want to live on my boat I shall do so as I believe I have every right to do so and would be willing to go to court to prove it. There are several local marinas with full time liveaboards here who are on well maintained yachts and spend their winters in the carib, when DNR comes sniffing for trouble the marinas play dumb. I agree there should be no tolerance for derilicts and a clause to this effect should be enforced but is isn't. Just a couple months ago a shrimpboat was left for dead just off the ICW, its slowly breaking up, leaking fuel, ect. Everyone knows who did it, is the state doing anything about it? The coasties? NOPE! I dare them to hassle me for living on my well maintained boat!

Okay I feel better now