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Old 24-03-2016, 05:29   #121
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pirate Re: Florida Anchor Ban Still Unsigned by governor

I think $22 is much too high for a daily use fee but compare the benefits to anchoring near a public boat ramp, locking the dink somewhere, walking the dog, dumping the trash and start walking looking for water to schelp along with everything else you may need.

Totally offended by the $22 fee? Go somewhere else.
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Old 24-03-2016, 06:54   #122
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Re: Florida Anchor Ban Still Unsigned by governor

I've never had a satisfactory answer to the simple question I keep returning to when I see these 'anchor ban' discussions:

Why is it any different for boaters than for RV drivers? Not a single one of you would be okay with random campers parking on your streets or downtowns, using public facilities and throwing their trash in public dumpsters.

The usual reply is 'but admiralty law guarantees free waters!' Here's a tip: that law doesn't apply, nor was it ever intended to apply, to recreational boaters. That law is obviously meant for facilitation of interstate commerce by water.

Please listen to tomfl, who obviously has taken the pulse of the situation.

Plenty of comments are coming from those who obviously aren't anywhere near Fla, nor have been there. F'example: the anchoring restriction in Destin? Crab "Island" is a sandbar in the Choctawhatchee Bay, where a drunken party ensues generally on the weekends. Every local I've talked to is all for banning overnight anchoring there. The 'real' anchorage is in Destin Harbor, and is still there for the taking.
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Old 24-03-2016, 07:41   #123
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Re: Florida Anchor Ban Still Unsigned by governor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Crab View Post
Likely the reason is that it was easy enuff fer you to do what you ultimately did, and then you deliberately misstated the answer. As you and everyone with a way to touch a keyboard knows, the $22 includes:

  • dinghy dockage with very close access to stores,
  • a pumpout
  • free showers
  • access to water, ice and trash disposal.
Unstated but implicit "for marina customers" is legal access to wifi, tv, battery charging, and
  • laundry,
  • use of the project room,
  • ability to park a vehicle for the day for $5.
It's great that $22 covers all those things. How much would it cost if I only want to tie up my dinghy?
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Old 24-03-2016, 07:52   #124
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Re: Florida Anchor Ban Still Unsigned by governor

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Originally Posted by AD28 View Post
I've never had a satisfactory answer to the simple question I keep returning to when I see these 'anchor ban' discussions:

Why is it any different for boaters than for RV drivers? Not a single one of you would be okay with random campers parking on your streets or downtowns, using public facilities and throwing their trash in public dumpsters.

The usual reply is 'but admiralty law guarantees free waters!' Here's a tip: that law doesn't apply, nor was it ever intended to apply, to recreational boaters. That law is obviously meant for facilitation of interstate commerce by water.

Please listen to tomfl, who obviously has taken the pulse of the situation.

Plenty of comments are coming from those who obviously aren't anywhere near Fla, nor have been there. F'example: the anchoring restriction in Destin? Crab "Island" is a sandbar in the Choctawhatchee Bay, where a drunken party ensues generally on the weekends. Every local I've talked to is all for banning overnight anchoring there. The 'real' anchorage is in Destin Harbor, and is still there for the taking.
Streets are state or town or county owned. They can make no parking signs. Tidal water on the other hand is federal. Federal land is able to be used by anyone. In fact RV's do boondock on federal land, all the time. I was an RV'er before I was a yacht'er.



So now when someone wants to anchor on a federal tidal waterway, they have the right to use it. If someone builds a house adjacent to a tidal waterway they must be as aware as a person next to a state park, or federal lands. People can come and hunt next to your property, just as they can come and fish. People will camp next to your property, just as they will anchor. To say someone cannot enjoy the federal land is wrong.

Now on the other hand....
You can't stay forever on any federal land. its called squatting, and its illegal. Just as people cannot anchor and should not be permitted to anchor forever on the water in one spot. I support a 30 day limit on anchoring, as most others do.
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Old 24-03-2016, 08:05   #125
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Re: Florida Anchor Ban Still Unsigned by governor

I'm not a fan of either water-borne trailer parks, or of the mentality which promotes the use of slowly deteriorating boats as permanent residences. There are many 'one-percenters' who provide the authorities with justification to legislate against those who merely sail and who need occasionally to put into a port, and who choose to avoid marinas.

As a community we should oppose tougher rules which seek to limit our temporary destinations. But we should be equally strident in our opposition to the bums who, through their refusal to actually move or maintain their rotting boats, give us all a bad name within the earth-dweller community. It is these people, far more than the waterfront don't-screw-up-my-view people, who motivate the law makers to turn the screws on lifestyle sailors.
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Old 24-03-2016, 08:56   #126
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Re: Florida Anchor Ban Still Unsigned by governor

While this thread rages on, I'm nearly within swimming distance of the closed "anchorages" and nothing has changed. Other than a few people in sunset lake, there weren't any boats anchored between the islands on the causeway anyway. It's not a good spot to anchor and the tidal current rips under the bridges there.

The actual anchorages here are still chock full of boats, half of which are derelicts or boat bums. More yet are unattended boats left in lieu of using a marina to store a boat.

The northeast USA is as crowded as this part of Florida, yet there are no anchoring restrictions that are actually enforced. Why?

Winter enforces them.

So truly it is the squatter, the boat bum that is causing our woes in Florida, especially with the high number of their boats that sink or are abandoned.

The FWC and local marine cops do an excellent job sorting us transients out from permanent encampments on the water here.

It's my opinion that the laws should support a 30 day limit, extendable by the local water cops or harbormaster for a nominal fee. They could also have metrered dinghy parking, making a little revenue off of a difficult situation, while keeping everyone happy. I'd prefer safe, metered dinghy parking to the theft rate here.

Who do you think does all the stealing here?

This is for the most urban of areas only, of course. Get into rural areas and the issue simply doesn't exist.
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Old 24-03-2016, 09:08   #127
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Re: Florida Anchor Ban Still Unsigned by governor

Quote:
I've never had a satisfactory answer to the simple question I keep returning to when I see these 'anchor ban' discussions:

Why is it any different for boaters than for RV drivers? Not a single one of you would be okay with random campers parking on your streets
I've grown tired of trying to explain this every time the RV analogy comes up in anchoring discussions but I'll give it another go.................

In Florida, we have what's called the Public Trust Doctrine.

Basically says that the publics right to use the waterways cannot be denied. Fishing, waterskiing, diving, boating, and yes anchoring are all uses of the waterways. The fishing industry would be up in arms if say they were trying to ban fishing in certain areas. This is no different.

I haven't anchored in any one place for more than a few days, so I can understand why someone might not want someone anchoring for six months. But a simple time limit would fix that, but that's not what anchoring ban people want. They just don't want anyone to use the waterway by their property. If they could ban the other uses of the waterway they would probably try that too.
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Old 24-03-2016, 09:18   #128
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Re: Florida Anchor Ban Still Unsigned by governor

Federal lands have campgrounds and rules that dictate using them. You might get away with squatting for a short time in a remote area but even that won't be allowed to continue indefinitely. That's the lesson the Bundy family are learning.

And given that the state or states are using their own state resources and manpower to patrol and govern these waterways, yes, the states will be able to dictate how these waterways are used.

The RV analogy does hold, and you all ought to get used to it. Just like on federal lands, you'll have designated areas to anchor and will be expected to use them. And they're probably not going to be in convenient places.
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Old 24-03-2016, 09:23   #129
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Re: Florida Anchor Ban Still Unsigned by governor

Quote:
And given that the state or states are using their own state resources and manpower to patrol and govern these waterways, yes, the states will be able to dictate how these waterways are used.

The RV analogy does hold, and you all ought to get used to it.
Well then, we might as well ban all waterway activities. That way we wouldn't need all that manpower to patrol and govern them...........
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Old 24-03-2016, 09:29   #130
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Re: Florida Anchor Ban Still Unsigned by governor

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It's great that $22 covers all those things. How much would it cost if I only want to tie up my dinghy?
$22...city marina of marathon don't sell services individually like the French do on their menus LOL.

Go to Dockside, buy a beer and dink dock is free or $5 a day and you can use their nasty shower...sea dogs that hang out there will sell you anything you'll ever want including friendship LOL.

Go to berdines $8 a day...free ice with fuel purchase.

Go to sombrero beach and it's free...you can walk your dog, use the public restroom and rinse off shower....$5 cab each way of the 2 mile trip to city center though most walk there/$5 cab back with the groceries/booze/ice...

Happy boating...
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Old 24-03-2016, 10:09   #131
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Re: Florida Anchor Ban Still Unsigned by governor

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$22...city marina of marathon don't sell services individually like the French do on their menus LOL.

Go to Dockside, buy a beer and dink dock is free or $5 a day and you can use their nasty shower...sea dogs that hang out there will sell you anything you'll ever want including friendship LOL.

Go to berdines $8 a day...free ice with fuel purchase.

Go to sombrero beach and it's free...you can walk your dog, use the public restroom and rinse off shower....$5 cab each way of the 2 mile trip to city center though most walk there/$5 cab back with the groceries/booze/ice...

Happy boating...
Thanks Sailor Jer. Great info. I can see why someone would be upset with people sneeking into the $22 dinghy dock when there's a $5 option. Free with a beer.

We're on our way to being self sufficient. A water maker will finish it up for us.

No pumpout with a composting head.
No laundry needed.
Don't use public showers. Shower on our boat.
Don't have a car.
Wood stove on the boat burns paper packaging and gives us heat.

So if we were to pull into BKH we would have some plastic garbage, a desire to get a dinner in a nice restaurant and a need to reprovision at a grocery store.

The $22 would be competing with the $6 option at Key West. Plus KW has a track record of some nice restaurants.

Here's what I see happening. Cuba opens up. Mrs Flare and I reprovision in KW and head out to where our money is welcome.

If other cruisers like us, who spend money and are unwelcome in FL do the same, BKH will be left with only transients. The very problem they tried to solve in the first place.
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Old 24-03-2016, 10:27   #132
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Re: Florida Anchor Ban Still Unsigned by governor

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Here's what I see happening. Cuba opens up. Mrs Flare and I reprovision in KW and head out to where our money is welcome.

That is what I hope happens too, except I would be tempted to skip KW and buy provisions in Cuba if able, but I doubt it will ever get to where you can anchor anywhere you want, and stay as long as you please, I have never been but my understanding is you can't travel and anchor where you please?
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Old 24-03-2016, 10:35   #133
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Re: Florida Anchor Ban Still Unsigned by governor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davy J View Post
I've grown tired of trying to explain this every time the RV analogy comes up in anchoring discussions but I'll give it another go.................

In Florida, we have what's called the Public Trust Doctrine.

Basically says that the publics right to use the waterways cannot be denied. Fishing, waterskiing, diving, boating, and yes anchoring are all uses of the waterways. The fishing industry would be up in arms if say they were trying to ban fishing in certain areas. This is no different.

I haven't anchored in any one place for more than a few days, so I can understand why someone might not want someone anchoring for six months. But a simple time limit would fix that, but that's not what anchoring ban people want. They just don't want anyone to use the waterway by their property. If they could ban the other uses of the waterway they would probably try that too.
This all seems to be about rights.

Regarding what you said to be the Public trust doctrine and the right to use waterways that right can only be exercised if somebody does not monopolize space.

For instance if a particular fisherman establishes permanent fish traps that don't allow navigation or make a permanent fish farm he will be restricting to others the right to use those waterways.

That is also true in what regards a permanent mooring. A permanent mooring will prevent others of using that space and will go against the right of free use of the space. At limit we can say that any anchoring will prevent the use of space from others.

It is all a question of good sense in what regards public use of waterways and it should be pleasure boaters, fishermen and other users that should come up with a reasonable solution.

It seems that the abuse of a situation (permanent moorings) and the lack of contribution from those that use them as their own, regarding a pacific solution that will respect the public rights of all involved parts, will risk harsh measures to be taken that in the end will be negative to several potential users of the space.

So, among the ones that use those moorings as their own, what solution do they propose for a fair use of that public waterways by all, including themselves?
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Old 24-03-2016, 10:51   #134
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Re: Florida Anchor Ban Still Unsigned by governor

The bill was signed into law by the governor today.
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Old 24-03-2016, 10:55   #135
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Re: Florida Anchor Ban Still Unsigned by governor

Well Florida just went on my don't go to list.
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