Comfort Index

[Impetuous too]

Hi jw, it's an interesting question which fundamentally can only be answered by yourself spending some time on each boat.

Also it very much depends where you want to be and how you expect your sail/motoring ratio to go and how far you plan to jump between stops.

That should help you to know whether a light boat with a reliable and easy to repair engine would trump our choice which would be a heavy well founded boat which you might want to re-rig and spend some money on new or lightly used sails.

Cruisers come in VERY different shapes and priorities.

All the best for your search

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[roverhi]

There have been a number of boats in the 33'-35' range that have sold for prices south of $20K. A Vanguard 33 in decent condition with things like Monitor Windvane, roller furling, good canvas including dodger and diesel for $3,000. It had been abandoned for more than a year on a mooring and looked like crap but has cleaned up quite nicely. It's taken the buyer a few months to get it in shape but looks like he is almost ready to sail off. Ebay has had a few boats recently that have sold cheap and one was given away on this site. With prices like that, you can afford to put quite a bit of money into the boat and still not be under water if you get her shined up.

You need to set down and calculate the cost of equipment that you'll need for the boat to have a good idea what a boat would be worth. I've sailed many happy miles with a vane doing the steering so that would be #1 on my list. Minimal electronics would be a Knotmeter/Log, Depth Sounder, Epirb, Small GPS Plotter or suitable Tablet Computer for navigation, a backup GPS or two and an inexpensive HF/SSB receiver like a Sony SF7600. Roller Furling is a must for these old bones with a decent suit of sails, triple reef main, 135 RF Genoa, Heavy Working sail, a Storm Jib, and a light air sail for reaching/downwind sailing. Windlass, all chain rode and solid anchor like a Manson though have had good luck with CQR and Danforth Pattern Anchors. At your age, an electric windlass might not be a bad idea. Our backs aren't getting any younger. A good dinghy. I like to row so have an Avon Red Crest inflatable and an 8' sailing dink. Good canvas including a strong dodger, awning for the mast back while at anchor and/or a bimini for sailing where the sun usually shines. A simple auto pilot to handle the boat under power would be nice but at the end of the list of must haves for me.

Through judicial shopping, religiously watching Ebay and Craig's List for used, you can get good deals on almost all the above if you are patient. Add up the costs of the above and figure that into what your cruising boat will cost you. With the exception of a good anchor and working sails, you can pick up a lot of the above stuff as it becomes available along the way. Personally, wouldn't go anywhere without my Wind Vane Self Steering, though.

Things you don't need are refrigeration. Lived for many years without it and quality beer actually tastes better at bilge temperature. If you have a well insulated ice box, block ice can last for many days if you must drink Lite water/beer. Sat Phone/SSB are nice if you are the gabby type but schedules and nets can be a hassle if you aren't in the mood. Radar is nice but costly and eats tons of juice. With a GPS, depth sounder and patience, you can go anywhere a radar will get you. Wheel steering, Tillers are simple, strong, not prone to failure and work way better with a Pendulum Servo Self Steering Vane. Hot rod planing dink with a big engine so you can annoy everybody in the anchorage.

If you are on a limited budget, go with the smallest solid boat with the best equipment that you can find. Even a 30' boat is large enough for a solo sailor. The larger the boat, the more things cost and the harder they are to handle in close quarters. A 30' boat is easy to fend off a dock, a 37' boat's momentum may just go through the dock. The roughest weather I've ever experienced, 30-40k winds, steep 10' seas, hard on the wind with no dodger was in a 26'/6,000# boat. Wouldn't have been comfortable in any boat but easily lived with it. For most cruising, you'll be picking your weather and sailing with favorable prevailing conditions. Those that don't are largely nuts and get to write the scary stories. Good luck on whatever you end up doing.

Going on 60 years messing around in sailboats.

[FamilyVan]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

You're not going to find much of a boat for $20k; probably one needing $100k worth of refitting. The bigger the boat, the worse shape it will likely be in.

Learn to sail, first.

I paid $17 500 cdn for my Fantasia 35. She is solid. Came with 9 sails and a dink. Beautiful interior. Propane range, hot and cold running water, decent engine, lots of tankage. Basic electronics (which isnt a problem if you know how to navigate). Everything in good working order.

I know I head out in rougher weather than most new plastic I see and stay out a lot longer after the barometer has dropped.

No doubt seamanship, technical skills and physical fitness will play a roll in what boat you can use where, but to say you can't find a seaworthy boat for under $20k makes this sport sound a lot more elitist then it needs to be.

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[Cap Erict3]

You are more likely to find a well maintained boat in your price range by dealing with the owner. If you like what you find tell the owner to cast off the lines.

A loved boat is likely to be a well maintained boat and the skipper should love to sail her. Baulking at sailing the boat should be taken as a warning.

While a survey is a good idea, IMHO a test drive should be a simple affair and will weed out a lot of marina queens before a survey. Their owners will make a big deal actually leaving the dock.

Boats in poor shape will often be looked at by a lot of buyers before someone comes along and rolls the dice, puts up 10-15% of the purchase price before a sail or survey.

Ask the owner of a junk plane for a test flight and look for fear in his eyes. Pilots love to fly their planes.

Good luck in your search. Beware the land sharks.




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Looking for another pretty place to work on the boat.

[jwcolby54]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

Sorry but it doesn't work that way.

snip...

Those shopping for a $15k bargain, on a boat that would cost $150k to replace, would be wise to understand the reason for the price difference, and the real cost of owning a $15k, one hundred and fifty thousand dollar yacht.

OK, so personally I want to ask what inspires someone to come into a thread asking for opinions about differences in sailing a 33' boat vs a 37' boat, does not in any fashion, EVER, address the question, but rather throws out this kind of stuff.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are trying to gently let me and the rest of us ... not so wealthy folk know that we really needn't be on this forum since I can't afford the 150K for the boat brand new? Or perhaps to gently suggest I should be looking at 15 ft boats since I can afford to buy them brand new?

What was I thinking?

In any case, a discussion of how a 33' compares to a 37' is simply not something that I (personally and individually) should be here asking since I (personally and individually) don't have $150K for that boat? It certainly appears that the question is entirely valid if I do have the cost to buy new eh?

I want to say I appreciate your concern for me, that you would attempt to save me from myself, and your concern for the other wealthy folks who have to put up with this kind of nonsense in their forums.

Or did I completely misread the intent?

[jwcolby54]

Originally Posted by Cap Erict3

Ask the owner of a junk plane for a test flight and look for fear in his eyes. Pilots love to fly their planes.

ROTFL, thanks, I needed that!

And your whole post makes absolute sense.

[Terra Nova]

If you cannot see how the bigger, more expensive (initially) boat racks up what could become a staggering burden of accumulated deferred maintenance, then I have failed to communicate.

[jwcolby54]

Originally Posted by FamilyVan

<Snip> but to say you can't find a seaworthy boat for under $20k makes this sport sound a lot more elitist then it needs to be

Ya think?

I do want to say that calling it a sport makes it sound a lot more elitist than it needs to be. If this is nothing but a sport, then suddenly the comment makes a lot more sense.

[FamilyVan]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

You're not going to find much of a boat for $20k; probably one needing $100k worth of refitting. The bigger the boat, the worse shape it will likely be in.

Learn to sail, first.

While you do mention bigger is more expensive, you also mention you can't buy a sufficiently elitist yacht for under $20k.

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[jwcolby54]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

If you cannot see how the bigger, more expensive (initially) boat racks up what could become a staggering burden of accumulated deferred maintenance, then I have failed to communicate.

If you cannot see that you are in the wrong thread entirely, then I have failed to communicate.

I started a thread just for you.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...72#post1835672

[jwcolby54]

Originally Posted by FamilyVan

While you do mention bigger is more expensive, you also mention you can't buy a sufficiently elitist yacht for under $20k.

Thanks FamilyVan.

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by jwcolby54

Just gotta educate some other folks.

Originally Posted by jwcolby54

If you cannot see that you are in the wrong thread entirely, then I have failed to communicate.

I get it. You're here to teach us.

[jwcolby54]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

I get it. You're here to teach us.

C'mon buddy. Apparently I do have to teach you. I did not ask you or anyone else whether I could get a boat for $20K. Do you remember me asking you that? Go back to the thread starter. Read carefully. I never asked anything about whether I could buy 'much of a boat' for $20K.

So I am trying my best to get you to either go with the actual question asked, or go somewhere else with your opinions. 'Cause this thread is not about your opinions on 'much of a boat'!

I got that you have your opinion. I actually respect your opinion, and your right to have your opinion. Actually Terra Nova, I have read many many of your posts which I have appreciated. Really! As you might have gathered, I simply did not appreciate the hijack of my thread.

I also got a fair number of opinions directly polar opposite to yours. And I got that with your "opinion" the thread that I started got hijacked to be about something that I have no interest in. And since it was me that asked the question, it seems logical that I can ask for the discussion to veer back to the question I asked.

Now, I actually did start a thread to discuss what you personally think "much of a boat" is. Please take your opinions over there and discuss that question there. Or continue to discuss it here and I will go find the ignore switch. I hesitate to do that simply because, in other places, I have appreciated your responses, and it would truly be my loss to not see your answers in other threads.

So help me out here Terra Nova, let's wind down the conflict.

[Cap Erict3]

There are diamonds in the rough to be found. As for a boat in the 35-40' range for 20k? That is a tough one to find.

The bigger the boat the more time and money required to keep it in good shape.

Here is a gamble worth the drive in my book. Good little boat in the wrong place.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cheoy-Lee-Of...m=111678078174





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Looking for another pretty place to work on the boat.

[FamilyVan]

Back to the Ops question. I see single and 60. I can't see why you would want a 37. You can find plenty of comfort on a 33.

37' is a lot of boat to single hand, and you probably don't need the extra space. My boat before the Van was a 1974 Grampian 30 ($7000) and was all the space I needed and then some. She was a stout good sailing boat with over 6' of head room.

Her systems were very basic, no shower, no running water, motored poorly but sailed great. But the space was more than adequate and she was excellent in a blow.

One of my favourite experiences was in around 30 knots of wind overhauling a larger and much much newer beneteau first. I was singlehanding, dressed in my standard crocs, swim trunks and, although I owned several shirts, didn't have one on. You think the preppy crew of the first gave me a dirty look? Nope, they gave me cheers as I sailed by.

For singlehanding, I personally would chose the smaller boat (the 33) not just for cost (and yes, I agree with Terra Nova, they get much more expensive with every foot), but smaller boats are easier to sail and anything over 30' will have lots of room.

Getting married and having a son is what obliged me to get the 35, not my comfort. If I was still single, I'd still be happily living on my Grampian, except I probably would have deep sixed the atomic 4 and bought a diesel for her.



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