Comfort Index

[jwcolby54]

Originally Posted by Cap Erict3

There are diamonds in the rough to be found. As for a boat in the 35-40' range for 20k? That is a tough one to find.

The bigger the boat the more time and money required to keep it in good shape.

Here is a gamble worth the drive in my book. Good little boat in the wrong place.

Cheoy Lee Off Shore 27 | eBay

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Looking for another pretty place to work on the boat.

Yep, yep, yep and yep.

1978 Classic Irwin Sailboat Masthead Sloop | eBay

Allied Sea Breeze 35 Sloop " Classic Plastic " | eBay

Not my style (or fixer budget) but look at this one. This is a cool boat.

1961 Krogen 42' Motorsailor Teak Planked Deutz Diesel American Marine Rugged | eBay

All of them will require more money. And yep, easy to just dismiss as 'not much of a boat'.

Believe me over the last few months I have looked at a ton of really and obviously bad boats.

[Cap Erict3]

I sail a 1980 Morgan Out Island 415 Sloop. It is a much maligned model while being a best seller in its day. 27000 lbs empty, 41' LOA, almost 14' beam she is not a racing sailors dream.

I love the old beast. I do my best to pick my weather for passages wisely but when caught out I reduce sail, pick a comfortable course and enjoy the ride. Zipping in the panels to enclose the center cockpit keeps it warm and dry.

It took a lot of work to get her where she is today. Initially I bought a sound hull, good standing rigging and spars and an engine that purred at a bump of the starter. I have added or upgraded headsail furling, lazy jacks, below decks autopilot and the list goes on.

Most of what I did was so it wasn't so hard to singlehand. It was a bear and largely because of the size.

If you go for a larger boat for its comfort and safety you need to factor in the added complexity of a big boat set up short handed sailing.






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Looking for another pretty place to work on the boat.

[jwcolby54]

Originally Posted by Cap Erict3

I sail a 1980 Morgan Out Island 415 Sloop. It is a much maligned model while being a best seller in its day. 27000 lbs empty, 41' LOA, almost 14' beam she is not a racing sailors dream.

I love the old beast.

I can appreciate that!

I will say that living up north, and wanting to 'commute' back and forth, the thought if sailing against the gulf stream and prevailing winds (most of the time) when going south has slanted me towards boats that have a higher SA/D ratio.

I do like that boat of yours, but a) I couldn't afford one like that and b) it would cost a ton to motor sail south. At least that is my take on the matter.

OTOH something like a Seidelmann 37 works for me. And I have actually found a few. Big(ish), high SA/D, lots of room, light for the size. All the numbers point to a nice little boat.

[nimblemotors]

I really have no experience to answer your question of whether a 37ft heavier boat has better 'seakeeping' i.e. comfort than a 33ft boat. However, that doesn't stop me from saying it does. Bigger and heavier generally is better to dampen movement. Get a big heavy catamaran, like a Wharram, should be good.

Now to whether you save up and wait to get a 37 vs 33, at 60 and single, I say get the smaller boat and get going.

[valhalla360]

If you were looking at a classic muscle car from the 60's and it's listed for $2k, would you expect it to be just need a wash and wax?

Of course not and a $20k 37' boat is the same situation. The problem is refitting costs don't go down because the boat is old. Buying old can be a great way to save money but you have to be realistic about it. Especially since you are asking this question, the odds of you have the experience to pick that diamond in the rough has much lower odds.

Given that you are single, I would suggest looking at smaller boats. For the same money you can get a boat in better condition and refitting will cost proportionally less (all else being equal...which it never is).

[ranger58sb]

OK, so not usually a sailor... but my standard answer about size is usually advice to pin down the individual features you must have, would like to have... and then go find a boat with those. Without much regard to size, at least at first. Maybe as a sanity check, afterwards...

So the drill would be something like:
- do you want a sleeping berth for yourself of size X?
- do you need additional berths (for guests or whatever)"
- do you want a galley?
- do you want a separate nav station?
- how many heads do you need? (relevant to berths)
- do you want a shower? (or will a wet head do? or do you not care?)
- do you want a dinette?
- do you want a settee? (combined with dinette, or not?)
- and so forth and so on.

Once you know your minimums, find boats like that. You may find some 33s have all you want/need, some don't. Or some 37s do, maybe some don't. Or some size X boats do it better than other size Y boats.


After all that, you might have developed a list of specific candidates -- for further comparison of comfort, handling ease, sea-keeping capabilities, etc. -- so folks here could better comment on pros/cons.

FWIW, when I've sailed, I found it slightly easier to single-hand with the larger boats -- but these were comparisons between 20-somethings and low-thirty-somethings. Not sure my limited experience is relevant, but I can say that has also been my outcome in our own style of boating. Within some reasonable comparison ranges, of course.


-Chris

[sailorboy1]

I don't understand why people continue to say things like "a 37' boat is a lot to single hand". If the boat is setup correctly, if you can handle a 30' boat you can handle a 50' one.

Getting a too small boat over this single handing thing is just a way not enjoy your boat the vast majority of time!


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[BlueMaxx]

There is currently a 1970 Morgan 34' on flea bay and they are asking 25K....looks on the post pretty darn nice

Worth checking out...

“The Dawn Treader is a beautiful navy blue 1970 Morgan 34'. Maintained professionally for the last 14 years, her sleek build leaves all other boats her size feeling stout and clunky. The intelligent layout offers space for the whole family to sleep comfortably below, with two back berths, a fold-down table birth and a v-birth in the bow. The interior spaces gives her the feel of a 39 or 40 foot cruiser. She received new sails just 4 years ago, and includes a state of the art Garmin GPS Chart Plotter, Raymarine Radar, and a Westerbeeke 38B4 Engine with under 1000 hours logged. She has a classic wooden boom, complete with StackPack mainsail and lazy-jack to provide assistance and ease. Also included is a custom in-cockpit teak table installed in 2011, as well as a full-size spinnaker and pole. Sleeps 6 people, diesel engine, enclosed head with waste tank (fully functioning), two burner stove & oven, depth finder, speedometer/odometer, vhf radio. All systems maintained/updated.”

[BandB]

I never saw an answer to the question I consider relevant to the issue. What is the OP's experience and in what types and sizes of boats. I asked that long ago in this thread and that would seem quite important to determining size and type of boat. If he's an experienced sailor and has handled 50' boats the larger one would be no issue, but if he's never sailed and this is his first boat to ever be on, then even the smaller one may be too much to handle. The question best stated isn't "what we would do" but "what we would recommend for someone in his situation."

[FamilyVan]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I don't understand why people continue to say things like "a 37' boat is a lot to single hand". If the boat is setup correctly, if you can handle a 30' boat you can handle a 50' one.

Getting a too small boat over this single handing thing is just a way not enjoy your boat the vast majority of time!


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

Bigger boats are harder to single hand.

Example, last week I was putting my 130 self furling Genoa up. Big heavy sail. Which meant I had to guide the sail into the track as I pulled on the halyard. My winch was back on the mast. I had to go back and forth between the winch and guiding the sail into the track about every 6 inches.

Had I had a 30' sailboat I wouldn't have used the winch because the sail would have been light enough for me to raise without it.

Now I realise you're not bending on a self furling Genoa every time you go out sailing, but it is a task a single handed sailor will have to perform from time to time. Big boat=big heavy sails that catch a lot of wind. They are more work to singlehand.

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[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I don't understand why people continue to say things like "a 37' boat is a lot to single hand". If the boat is setup correctly, if you can handle a 30' boat you can handle a 50' one.

Getting a too small boat over this single handing thing is just a way not enjoy your boat the vast majority of time!


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

I'll admit to being anti-single hand, especially in anything much more than 25'. (but I know I people will do it anyway)

The problem with a 50' boat is if you ever need to go into a marina (ie: to get fuel, water, pump out, etc...) it quickly beomes unrealistic to be able to handle all the tasks.

Below 25' if you are able bodied, I don't like it but you could throw it in neutral and be on the bow in just a few seconds (assuming the boat is set up well).

Also, you can have someone on the bow closer to the action directing from 10-15' away from the dock as opposed to 40-50' away where things are hidden from view by the bow.

Once you get the sails set and are just cruising along, that is where it doesn't make as much difference.

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I don't understand why people continue to say things like "a 37' boat is a lot to single hand". If the boat is setup correctly, if you can handle a 30' boat you can handle a 50' one.

Getting a too small boat over this single handing thing is just a way not enjoy your boat the vast majority of time!

Of course you are right, except with a limited budget 33' is cheaper to maintain compared to 37' if both are about the same condition and equipment. For a single handler 33'is a plenty of boat. Could do with a 28' if there's head room enough where it's needed..

[FamilyVan]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I'll admit to being anti-single hand, especially in anything much more than 25'. (but I know I people will do it anyway)

The problem with a 50' boat is if you ever need to go into a marina (ie: to get fuel, water, pump out, etc...) it quickly beomes unrealistic to be able to handle all the tasks.

Below 25' if you are able bodied, I don't like it but you could throw it in neutral and be on the bow in just a few seconds (assuming the boat is set up well).

Also, you can have someone on the bow closer to the action directing from 10-15' away from the dock as opposed to 40-50' away where things are hidden from view by the bow.

Once you get the sails set and are just cruising along, that is where it doesn't make as much difference.

Anti single hand over 25'? I almost exclusively single hand my 24000 lb 35'. Docking isn't an issue for me. Not at all. I just back her in so I have visibility and I can step a few feet from my wheel, and throw on a spring. I have never encountered the need to manhandle her, she has an engine.

I'll agree more skill and experience is required to single hand a larger boat, but it's perfectly safe and quite doable with the appropriate skills.

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[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

...The problem with a 50' boat is if you ever need to go into a marina (ie: to get fuel, water, pump out, etc...) it quickly beomes unrealistic to be able to handle all the tasks...

Not exactly. It simply means you have to have your act together.

Before actually entering the marina, you will have organized all your dock lines and fenders, warmed up the engine while on auto-pilot, taken the sails down and left them ready to hoist or unfurl, readied your anchor for quick deployment, in case of emergency, etc. And, in particular, you will have center spring-lines ready to attach the moment you step foot on the dock. This controls the boat while you go about the rest of your business of docking.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by FamilyVan

Anti single hand over 25'? I almost exclusively single hand my 24000 lb 35'. Docking isn't an issue for me. Not at all. I just back her in so I have visibility and I can step a few feet from my wheel, and throw on a spring. I have never encountered the need to manhandle her, she has an engine.

I'll agree more skill and experience is required to single hand a larger boat, but it's perfectly safe and quite doable with the appropriate skills.

Sent from my SGH-I547C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

So what happens when you need to go bow in? Sure we could bat various scenarios around and given some time to think about it, you could come up with a solution but there is no way you will adapt to strange situations as quickly single handed. (also, you will note I never said to manhandle her).