POLL Marine Insurance

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by Whaubner

I don't understand how not having insurance would make you more cautious and take more precautions?

With insurance I still strive to be as cautious as I can and take ever precaution available to me.

Until you realise that one misjudgement can ruin you financally. You don't fully apreciate the risks. But it sounds like you have the right attitude. Cheers

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by sailvayu

What if someone on your boat gets hurt, no fault of you or the boat but things happen, this injured crew finds themselves crippled for life. Are you saying it is their tough luck and you bear no responsibility? That they should just accept this and move on?

Let me preface my reply by saying that I have full insurance with Pantaenius Germany and my guests would be covered on board.

I would reply yes to this question.

If I was hurt on someone else's boat I would certainly not be seeking compensation and would expect my guests to have the same attitude. Life is full of risks (particularly on the water). People should take some responsibility for their own decisions and accept the consequences of the risk taking rather than apportioning blame and absolving themselves of responsibility if things go wrong!

[rtbates]

when you say, "insurance", do you mean liability, where it pays only for the damage I cause others, or full coverage, where they pay for my boat's damage as well. I've never had full coverage on anything. I've always preferred being responsible 100% for my stuff. Banks don't get a vote as I also don't finance. I save until I can pay cash.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by sailvayu

"For me…
Self-Insure is more of an ethical/psychological mindset rather than real insurance.

If a guest/crew hurt themselves on board my yacht ..I trust they will accept their decision to be there and move on."

Maybe I am reading this wrong but it sort or says to me your ethics are that if a crew gets hurt on your boat they SOL and on their own?

What if someone on your boat gets hurt, no fault of you or the boat but things happen, this injured crew finds themselves crippled for life. Are you saying it is their tough luck and you bear no responsibility? That they should just accept this and move on?

We have insurance to help others as much as ourselves. It is there to help protect those on our boats, those injured by our boats and those that could be injured by our boats, including the environment (In the case of oil spills.)

The most important part of insurance is liability not just covering the cost of the boat. To me that is the ethical thing to do, not having that is unethical.

Hi Sailvayu… I like your blog!

Re: Crew/Guests on board getting hurt thru their participation on a voyage….
They are my friends and I will help them as best as I can.
I will at least get them stabilized and safely home.
…But I do not feel it is my responsibility to look after them for the rest of my life.
….I have personal medical insurance for that scenario and so should they.

Re: Ethics in Marine Insurance
Perhaps I am a bit cynical after being involved as a plaintiff’s witness in a number of Marine cases (both Commercial and Private) where the damaged vessel was being screwed, because the Insurance Company decided to do a runner on covering their client’s liability, because of some fine print technicality…. (Usually claims of drink)
Or sometimes, the Insurance Company just closed shop and retained premiums, when things got too difficult.

I sail in areas that Insurance companies still fine print as “war zones” and ‘seasonally dangerous’ and even though not excluded… I know they will factor that into any schedule payouts.

Big difference from sailing in the litigious areas of developed yachting centers, where Lawyers are the real predators. So Insurance there may be a necessary evil.

Bottom line .. For my Area, I am more comfortable with my Ethics, than profit oriented “Names’ and Agencies”

[SeaBuffalo]

I don't know how you guys get away without liability. Just about all marinas here on the gulf coast require you to carry a $300K liability policy.

[Sailormantx]

Money is better spent on taking care of the boat than on a piece of paper from some company that does not want to give you anything in returnfor your money. Having had a boat (3) since the mid 1980's without losing one, the cost of full coverage premiums would have exceeded the purchase price of any of my boats by now. As others have said, being responsible for your own boat makes one very cautious when making a mistake can leave you homeless.
Marinas are now requiring liability insurance in the USA, adding to the cost of slip rental. I am not willing to leave the boat unattended at anchor when I get a job as that entails me being away for weeks or months at a time, so that expense is unavoidable for now.

[roverhi]

If you are sailing without liability insurance, you are risking everything, and I do mean EVERYTHING that you own. A moments inattention, a guest getting whacked by the boom on a tack, whatever thing you can think of could result in a lawsuit or being at fault in property damage incident.. Doesn't matter how blameless you are, the cost of defending against a suit can easily run to six figures if it goes to trial. Just not worth taking the chance for the few hundred dollars a liability policy costs.

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by SeaBuffalo

I don't know how you guys get away without liability. Just about all marinas here on the gulf coast require you to carry a $300K liability policy.

In aussie it's $5-$10 million liability required...

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

In aussie it's $5-$10 million liability required...

Lol….
What does that say about the risk factor of the average aussie sailor…?

[atoll]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Lol….
What does that say about the risk factor of the average aussie sailor…?

it probably says more about the skills of your average ambulance chasing lawyer!

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Lol….
What does that say about the risk factor of the average aussie sailor…?

Ha, yep.. Seen some pretty stupid things, but be assured that in this international world it is probably coming your way!

[sailvayu]

I am still not buying the logic of the crew should have their own insurance and after that they are on their own. I can understand about the insurance companies and lord, do not get me started on lawyers making way more than they should on this type of thing.
Here is a real world example.
Mans buys a boat and on his first trip out the boat sinks. Sadly his GF dies in the accident. The owner thought the broker had taken care of the insurance, after all the broker assured him it was "all taken care of" Well it was not and the man had no insurance. The GFs family sues him and after years of endless law suites and losing everything he owns he finally takes his own life in despair. This is a true story.
Moral, have insurance and always get it in writing!
We want to think the best of our friends and even if they do not sue a slick lawyer will likely talk them or their family into suing. Is it right? well I do not think so but others will disagree. It is what it is and it happens all the time. Just owning a boat places you at risk. I hate writing that check every year as much as anyone else but on the other hand I feel better knowing I have this protection. If you are a live aboard or do not own a home your risk just went up 100% as you will not have any other protection to fall back on as with your home owners umbrella protection.
You may stick your head in the sand but your ass is still exposed for a good kicking and you will not see it coming!

[Sailor g]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Reasons you do or do not carry Marine Insurance? YES … Personal decision… Full Cruising Coverage

We had full coverage of price & liability plus a rider that allowed us to stay in Mexico during hurricane season. We insured it because it was our home. It was for the unexpected-even though we are super careful. The odds are against a total loss so it was more often from someone banging into you as they come into a marina (2x-one newbie,1 lost power) though we never made a claim.

I agree insurance is more to get a slip in a marina & for protection against lawsuits from others-those who drag anchor & blame you because you were in the way.

[Lake-Effect]

A friend used to keep his boat on a 3-point mooring at a club. Neighbouring boat's bow line failed and said boat's bow beat on my friend's boat all night. $9k of damage to friend's boat...

My friend had insurance and that company paid out, and then went after the offending boat's insurer... and it may be that the offender didn't have insurance himself. Last I heard, my friend's insurer is now chasing down the guy.

Moral - in the higher-density marine world of a modern city or boating area, insurance is a no-brainer. You just need it period, unless your "mad money" account has six or more digits.

Cruising to the ends of the earth... maybe insurance is not as necessary. Then again, when your modest cruiser accidently ploughs into the side of a sleek new motor yacht in Venezuela, and it belongs to Chavez's brother-in-law... insurance could come in quite handy then, too.

[mikepmtl]

Keeping insurance down here in Florida is very expensive. The only way I could afford it was to not be covered under named storms. Aren't they all named these days!

I keep it mostly in case of total loss and liability that many marinas require here.