Share some Sailing Terms....

[Alan Mighty]

Originally Posted by StuM

I'd dispute that bit. Swaying was the standard term for hoisting any sort of yard, mast or spar.

You're right. I misspoke carelessly and should not have used the term halyard.


Swigging off seems fairly specific to the technique of pulling laterally on a load bearing line to harden it up and remove the last bit of slack. I remember Lyle Hess in the 1960s or early 1970s talking about swaying up the mainsail, by which he likely just meant to hoist it (and make the halyard taut by unspecified means).


My original point was that both 'swigging off' and 'swaying up' pre-date 'sweat' and that the later was just a general description of putting muscle into the job (and that use of a tackle was just as valid a way of sweating up as swigging up.


I will take your word on 'swaying up' because I've not done enough research on the term. The Oxford English Dictionary, although not perfect on nautical terms and tending to be dogmatic rather than embracing any doubt, suggests that 'swaying up' is the older term (1743 sway the Fore-yard up). OED has swigging off showing up in 1794. And its fairly obvious that Luce's words on swigging off are copied by the anonymous first author(s) of The Bluejackets Manual who by 1917 or 1918 (Van Der Veer) detail the geometric limits of pulling laterally. I suspect that the two terms - swigging and swaying - get confused by different authors (including myself). Then along comes sweating in about 1890, used by some to subsume both swigging and swaying.


I think 'swaying' and 'swigging' likely come from the same language source. In his dictionary of etymology (2nd ed.,), Wedgewood pointed to 'swag' as close to the origin in English. I think early Modern English 1530 swagge (as recorded in the OED) is the word to which Wedgewood was pointing. Swagge is likely of Scandinavian origin, such as from Old Norse sveigja, to sway, with Middle English 14th century sweȝe as an intermediate.

Sway is likely from proto-Germanic *swaigijana, to wave, to wobble, to swing; and ultimately from PIE *swaig, *sweg, *sweng, to bend, to swing. I haven't traced the origin of Old Norse sveigja, to sway, and I'm not sure it's documented or documentable. ON sveigja doesn't feel far from proto-G *swaigijana.


That of course suggests the English terms (and the technique of swigging off) have their origin among the sailors and fishers of the North Sea, regardless of which economy was their individual origin. No surprise there - a goodly number of nautical terms come from that source.

[PangurBan]

Originally Posted by RolfP

"The whole nine yards" - I have always thought that this meant to put all the sails on all 9 yardarms of a full rigged ship, but it's just my story, nothing to back it up. I don't even know if a full rigged ship has 9 yard arms. :-)


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I always thought that "the whole nine yards" referred to the 27 foot long ammunition belts that fed the heavy machine guns on bomber planes. A gunner would say that he gave a target "the whole nine yards"


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[Curious Sailor]

Wow! These are all awesome!

[Curious Sailor]

As the winds of time carry us into the New Year, I wish you the courage to face every storm, the strength to sail through, and the serenity that awaits you....


Happy New Year!

[jongleur]

With the nautical brainpower on this
thread:

Occasionally, someone posts that they
would like to be able to strike a sail
more easily (There's an interesting term,
"strike"). Anyway, the suggestions
always seem to be to rig a "downhaul."
But the proper term for a line to
completely bring down a sail is a
"disgracing line." That's
completely different from a "downhaul."

Just my two pennies. Discussion?

[ryon]

Originally Posted by jongleur

With the nautical brainpower on this
thread:

Occasionally, someone posts that they
would like to be able to strike a sail
more easily (There's an interesting term,
"strike&quot. Anyway, the suggestions
always seem to be to rig a "downhaul."
But the proper term for a line to
completely bring down a sail is a
"disgracing line." That's
completely different from a "downhaul."

Just my two pennies. Discussion?

I always thought that a disgracing line was when I said something dumb. Never heard it used in connection with sails.

BTW, "thingie" is one of the most useful terms in my vocabulary. It's one word that I can use in polite company, such as here. The Spanish translation "chingaderra" and the universal p#%! ^#@!! are not.

[ryon]

Originally Posted by StuM

In many situations you have more lines coming to a pin rail than are needed to be made fast under load at any one time. With running blocks you either need a dedicated one for each line or you need to reeve lines every time you use different ones. With sway hooks, you just flick the appropriate line under the hook.

Okay, but usually each line has its own belay and its own lead. If we need to belay something extra, we'll just put it on a less-used pin, one belay over another. I don't think this is the answer, because the swaying hook isn't a belay anyway, and snap-shackles can handle multiple lines.

What worries me is the "flick the appropriate line under the hook" part. If you can flick it on, it could potentially unflick itself just as easily. I'm stumped.

[Hudson Force]

I enjoyed reading this thread. It's New Year's Eve and we're "Splicing the Main Brace"!

[ryon]

Here's another term, which I used in #34, and something you guys might be thinking about tonight: "Ballantine":

The running lines on a sailboat must be ready to run at all times under sail. You do not want to be caught in a situation where you need to untangle a line before it can be cast off, or worse, finding your cast off line tangled fifty feet above your head in the rigging! All lines are properly coiled and hung on their belays, or coiled and capsized on the deck, so that the line will run from the top of the coil, and not from its underneath.

But coiling a line can make it kink, and you don't want that. Regularly coiled lines are always coiled from the belay out to their free end so any kinks will work their way out. But when you coil this on the deck, the line runs from the bottom of the coil instead of the top, hence you must capsize, or turn it over.

Some lines, such as gaff halyards and headsail halyards tend to be very long, and wrestling with a heavy, waterlogged coil turning it over in a seaway is no fun, so the solution is to 'ballantine' the line, or coil it from its free end on the deck without its kinking. A ballantined coil starts with a large coil, alternating with three smaller inner coils, which take up the twist as the coil is made.

Want a picture of how this looks? Ask for a bottle of Ballantine's ale tonight and look at their trademark on the label, a properly ballantined coil.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by ryon

Want a picture of how this looks? Ask for a bottle of Ballantine's ale tonight and look at their trademark on the label, a properly ballantined coil.

I've never come across Ballantine's Ale. Apparently it is a US brewery.

So I went looking. That's not a ballantined coil.



It's a set of Borrowmean Rings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borromean_rings

How about that - I looked for that link because I couldn't remember the correct name for them - and on reading it, I came across this:

"The rings were used as the logo of Ballantine beer, and are still used by the Ballantine brand beer, now distributed by the current brand owner, the Pabst Brewing Company"

[Rock-Head]

Originally Posted by Delancey

You guys sure have a bunch of fancy words, but still I think none with the high degree of versatile utility as my wife's most common utterance when onboard -

Thingy : being whatever she is referring to at a given moment. Often conjoined with other words to produce a more descriptive term (usually after I ask her "what thingy?") such as rope-thingy, pole-thingy, or floaty-thingy.

Oh yeah. My world:

Her: "Have you seen that thing?"

Me: "What thing dear?"

Her: "You know, that thing I had earlier? The Thing with the Thing."

smh

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[ryon]

Originally Posted by StuM

I've never come across Ballantine's Ale. Apparently it is a US brewery.

So I went looking. That's not a ballantined coil.



It's a set of Borrowmean Rings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borromean_rings

How about that - I looked for that link because I couldn't remember the correct name for them - and on reading it, I came across this:

"The rings were used as the logo of Ballantine beer, and are still used by the Ballantine brand beer, now distributed by the current brand owner, the Pabst Brewing Company"

Okay, maybe I was drinking the last time I saw the trademark! You're right, it's Borromean Rings, though I sure remember them to be a ballantine coil. I'm off to do more research.

Here's a better description than mine too:

Coiling line using the Ballantine Coil on the Adventuress

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by StuM

I think you may find that it is the other way around. Belay came before belaying pin.

Belay means to secure a line around a fixed object.
A belaying pin is called that because it designed specifically to belay a line.

I stand corrected

thank you

[Delancey]

Interesting bit about "strike" as in a labor strike-

The use of the English word "strike" first appeared in 1768, when sailors, in support of demonstrations in London, "struck" or removed the topgallant sails of merchant ships at port, thus crippling the ships.[2][3][4] Official publications have typically used the more neutral words "work stoppage" or "industrial dispute".

[ryon]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Interesting bit about "strike" as in a labor strike-

The use of the English word "strike" first appeared in 1768, when sailors, in support of demonstrations in London, "struck" or removed the topgallant sails of merchant ships at port, thus crippling the ships.[2][3][4] Official publications have typically used the more neutral words "work stoppage" or "industrial dispute".

We "strike" the colors, and we strike sails. Being in port is immaterial to the process. Generally all sails have been struck and furled before docking anyway. "Send down" the royals, or topgallants, etc. would be the call to remove to the deck the yard, sail and all.

But sending down a t'gallant is a lot of work, and not that effective in hindering a ship's movement. The topsails are bigger and much more important in driving the ship. A sailor can find many easier ways of sabotage than messing with the t'gans'ls. Like simply disabling the rudder.