Maltreatment By Homeland Security

[xymotic]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

I was once on a boat off of Key West in the 1980's when we were approached by an unlit boat which followed us off of our port quarter. It was visible on radar and despite no moon we could sea its bow wave because of the bioluminecence. We made repeated calls for them to identify themselves on 16 and called the USCG on 16 but got no answer. Finnaly in exasperation the captain called to the unidentified vessel and told them to identify themselves or he would open fire. About 1 second later we were hit with a very bright spot light and a loudspeaker announcing "This is the US Coast Guard prepare to be boarded. We were actually glad it ended up being the coast guard as the area was frequented by a lot of drug smugglers in those days. This tactic certainly worked well for the Coast Guard as they are military trained and have very good fire discipline. I'm not sure the same can be said for other agencies that might have been following us that night.

Wouldn't it have been smarter to just hit them with a spotlight?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

I was once on a boat off of Key West in the 1980's when we were approached by an unlit boat which followed us off of our port quarter. It was visible on radar and despite no moon we could sea its bow wave because of the bioluminecence. We made repeated calls for them to identify themselves on 16 and called the USCG on 16 but got no answer. Finnaly in exasperation the captain called to the unidentified vessel and told them to identify themselves or he would open fire. About 1 second later we were hit with a very bright spot light and a loudspeaker announcing "This is the US Coast Guard prepare to be boarded. We were actually glad it ended up being the coast guard as the area was frequented by a lot of drug smugglers in those days. This tactic certainly worked well for the Coast Guard as they are military trained and have very good fire discipline. I'm not sure the same can be said for other agencies that might have been following us that night.

I won't try that outside the US, its hard to dodge 50 caliber on a GRP boat.

Dave

[hellosailor]

"Wouldn't it have been smarter to just hit them with a spotlight? "
Oh, come one. Go back even five years ago, now tell me what sailboat has a NightSun installed, much less any handheld spotlight that can compare to what a ship has mounted.

Last I heard, COLREGS applied to USCG and other vessels on patrol, as well as the rec sailors. If they're not identifying themselves and not responding, they shouldn't be surprised to be treated as potential hostiles. Guaranteed that's happened to them before.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"Wouldn't it have been smarter to just hit them with a spotlight? "
Oh, come one. Go back even five years ago, now tell me what sailboat has a NightSun installed, much less any handheld spotlight that can compare to what a ship has mounted.

Last I heard, COLREGS applied to USCG and other vessels on patrol, as well as the rec sailors. If they're not identifying themselves and not responding, they shouldn't be surprised to be treated as potential hostiles. Guaranteed that's happened to them before.

Never treat anyone in pseudo military kit as hostile , great way to get shot.

Dave

[hellosailor]

Dave, you're not disagreeing with me.

There's a difference between what I said (potential hostiles) and what you said (hostile).

A hostile demands action.

A potential hostile demands vigilance and further atention.

For an unknown shadow that is refusing to return contact, you could simply place a radio call to a non-existant vessel asking them to maintain radio silence but go weapons hot and standby to assist you with a potential hostile. No one will be in a hurry to open fire on you when there's an unknown third party out there, possibly targeting them.

You do what you gotta do. I know an officer and a gentlemen who captained a large gray ship for some years. One night he placed a starshell across the bridge of the next guy in a convoy, because that next guy, also on a large gray ship, was not maintaining position and not responding to signals. Sometimes, even uniforms fall asleep on watch. So you do what you gotta do, and just make sure you don't do something rash.

If you make 'em pee their pants, that's OK. If you get yourself shot, that might mean you've done something rash.

Of course these days with all the gung-ho yahoos in quasi-legal agencies...I know some folks who would say if you need to conduct target damage assessment, you should have used a bigger weapon.

[goboatingnow]

For an unknown shadow that is refusing to return contact, you could simply place a radio call to a non-existant vessel asking them to maintain radio silence but go weapons hot and standby to assist you with a potential hostile. No one will be in a hurry to open fire on you when there's an unknown third party out there, possibly targeting them.

You think they don't have radar. It's a completely unbelievable scenario you've painted. Fake radio calls to vessels that don't answer you. Yeap, they'll brown trouser for sure

Good luck with that.

Dave

[hellosailor]

Dave, if you were any more literal I'd worry that you put your shoes and socks on, in that specific sequence too.

I don't say that's the magic answer, just that that's a line of thought to explore. You think radar is some big magic? If they're running dark, they may well have the radar off as well. For the same reason that submarines on patrol run with their active sonar OFF, because it you're emitting, someone else can track you too. And there's no guarantee that your radar can see someone who is watching you. Aside from range issues and seastate and poor reflectivity from wood and glass boats?

These days the drugrunners are doing what worked so well for rumrunners during Prohibition: running semi-submerged, with next to nothing above the water to be seen. By eyes or radar.

Radar? Yeah, magic bullet. All you have to do is make the other guy doubt. Apparently you see things so clearly that you've never done that dance. That doesn't mean it can't be done. Maybe you remember the Cuban Missile Crisis? Bluffing, brinksmanship, and eventually someone blinked. Coulda ended very differently and very badly, sure. That's why some folks don't play poker and others make a living at it.

Or, you can just ignore the boogeyman, as long as that works for you.

[goboatingnow]

Wow. Dont know how to answer that.

I've been accosted several times in various waters by all sorts of security and special ops teams, its an occupational hazzard of out of season deliveries. I would never challange or seek to play tricks. In practice there are few bad guys out there, so its mainly " good" guys shadowing you. I just ignore and make my way until I am accosted. , then when I get the " Tout les documents , " I do my yes sir no sir three bags full sir regime. I certainly don't do the macho, show yourself stuff. It just gets them pissed

If its Special Ops I just go about my business , why should I care in general if someone is shadowing me, 99 times out of 100 its security , the bad guys you almost can sense , I don't know but I've rarely mistook one for the other. If the bad guys are armed and want to kill me I'm f' ed anyway , so why get your knickers in a twist. What are you going to do in a 5 knot sailboat exactly.

If there is a bogeyman and by definition there rarely is, I might throw the Danbuoy at him/it I suppose

Say I off the Atlantic French coast , with an unlit Military style boat in the darkness, just who will I " fake" call !!!! , maybe Lord Nelson !! All I can do is suck it up.

Dave

[GaryMayo]

When in prison, don't drop the soap

[St. Elsewhere]

Several years ago we were approached by a fast, unmarked, RIB with a crew of armed men in dark uniforms. It was a sunny day, and we were in a VTS traffic lane. A US Navy aircraft carrier was approaching in the adjacent VTS lane in the opposite direction. The RIB crew was asking for our destination and advising us to stay well clear (which of course is assured by being in the traffic lanes). One of our guests raised a camera, and the RIB immediately went to full throttle on a heading to get them out of a picture. We believe that they were navy seals. They were polite, but did not identify themselves, nor were they interested in boarding us.

In this time of high MarSec levels we need to give those involved in security work some slack. We have encountered various US and Canadian entities in this process, an not had a negative experience. Although, I was a bit startled when in British Columbia and approached by descending aircraft moving at high speed directly toward our boat. He pulled up, and then called on the radio having read our name. At that time they were routinely collecting information on last port of call, and destination. In the last couple of years, they seem to have discontinued this process.

[xymotic]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"Wouldn't it have been smarter to just hit them with a spotlight? "
Oh, come one. Go back even five years ago, now tell me what sailboat has a NightSun installed, much less any handheld spotlight that can compare to what a ship has mounted.

Last I heard, COLREGS applied to USCG and other vessels on patrol, as well as the rec sailors. If they're not identifying themselves and not responding, they shouldn't be surprised to be treated as potential hostiles. Guaranteed that's happened to them before.

Huh? You said they were off the port Quarter. I would think a handheld would at least light the shape of the insignia.

At worst it's telling them you see em. It may or may not work but there is very little downside.

But OTOH, talking about weapons or outright threatening a military vessel is akin to shouting 'bomb' at the airport. If you joke about drugs don't be surprised when the k9 boards the boat.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

You think they don't have radar. It's a completely unbelievable scenario you've painted. Fake radio calls to vessels that don't answer you. Yeap, they'll brown trouser for sure

Good luck with that.

Dave

If you have at least one crew could you carry on a fake conversation? Or are all the fancy radios now transmitting who it is that is transmitting?

[anjou]

This might stir things up a little

TSA under fire after exposing breasts of congressman's 17yo niece during patdown | Mail Online

[GeoPowers]

Why didn't you just ask them who they were?

[nagrom snoyl]

on a little bit of a lighter note, years ago while we were salmon fishing of the west coast of ireland the irish navy decided that they wanted to board one of my mates boats that was fishing beside us as they did fishery patrols during the summer months, not to get into the resons but lets just say my mate wasent very keen for the navy to board him and made his way into shallower water so the main navy vessel could,nt come close to him. so they lauched a rib and tried to get on board... cutting a long story short they chased him around for hours inside islands and small bays but never made it aboard anyway the captian of the navy ship came on channel 16 to say they were giving up the chase and had met their match so were leaving a gift behind them for my mate that they could,nt board attached to blondie (marker bouy) ... when he picked up the bouy there was a bottle of brandy tied to it, just saying they had a sense of humour.............