Is Flying Your Ensign a Requirement ?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

The English tend to be more lax about flying a courtesy flag - mostly from ignorance (that we are not in the Solent )......but we have long got used to that.........and so don't take umbrage (nor open fire ).

The RYA advise English yachtsmen not to fly a courtesy flag at all in the Channel Islands -- since you have the same Red Ensign. Maybe that's why they seem "lax". Is the advice incorrect?

Most of the foreign yachts in St. Peter Port, where I spent a few days a couple of weeks ago, were flying regular Guernsey flags (the white one wiht the red cross) as a courtesy flag. That's what we did.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by TheManWhoSpoke

The courtesy flag only signifies that customs has granted permission to enter that country, and is only flown when such permission is granted.

An interesting fact I understood but had forgotten as it doesn't come up on the Great Lakes very much and most visiting Americans fly the Canadian flag on the starboard flag halyard as soon as they approach harbour, not after they've "cleared customs", which as often as not involves a phone call and the recitation of a pre-arranged clearance code or number.

Thanks for posting this.

[S/V Alchemy]

There used to be a pastime on cruising boats of keeping a bag of primary coloured nylon scraps and simply sewing up courtesy flags. Flags with complex logos, armorial shields or crests would perhaps become too complex, but many flags of the world are pretty basic bars of colour.

Some of 'em are even close to signal flags...we all carry signal flags, right?

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

The RYA advise English yachtsmen not to fly a courtesy flag at all in the Channel Islands -- since you have the same Red Ensign. Maybe that's why they seem "lax". Is the advice incorrect?

They may be right (there lawyers are better than me!), probably a case of the rules being unclear / no one cares to test in court.....but it can't be "the same Red Ensign" because only a vessel registered in the UK can fly the UK flag (and there be UK residency requirements for the owner as well to get on a UK ship register).

If a Jersey boat is registered simply in Jersey, how can it be entitled to fly the ensign of another Registry? (and vice verce) on which it is not even entitled to be registered. Be like saying I can fly the USA flag simply because it has nice colours

Obviously in practice the Jersey Red Ensign does look much the same (identical) as an English one (I suspect that very deliberate - back in the days when the English had a Navy).

Most of the foreign yachts in St. Peter Port, where I spent a few days a couple of weeks ago, were flying regular Guernsey flags (the white one wiht the red cross) as a courtesy flag. That's what we did.

What they do in Guernsey is of no great interest to me

Always polite to greet the immigration / customs / harbour officials with a loud impression of Eeyore (Winnie the Pooh) They'll love that

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Obviously in practice the Jersey Red Ensign does look much the same (identical) as an English one (I suspect that very deliberate - back in the days when the English had a Navy).
:

I always thought that the Jersey ensign was this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ci..._of_Jersey.svg
Which doesnt look the "same" as the the motherland ( so to speak)

Surely it would therefore be entirely appropriate to fly such a flag in the crosstrees of a UK mainland registered vessel.? ( even if not legally required)
Dave

[David_Old_Jersey]

Either is still good (and legal) as a Jersey Ensign - choice to fly is simply down to the whim of the owner..........I am not so certain what the actual position is on the Courtesy Flag, my guess is that either is acceptable or even the Jersey flag (red cross on white background, with crest on).

As I said, no one here really fussed, but the courtesy of a simple acknowledgement of not being a suburb in England is nice to see

[Surfer Girl]

Interesting reading all your posts. I'm envious you Brits and Europeans can just duck across to an island like Jersey or to France, etc for a bit of a weekend... from Australia there's no ducking across to anywhere! Even Lord Howe Island is a serious hike and 'across the pond' to New Zealand, well we are talking about the Tasman Sea, one of the most notorious slabs of blue water in the world....

I digress, my take on 'Courtesy Flags' is just that - it's a courtesy shown and displayed by the visiting yacht. Why risk upsetting anyone, whether it be customs/immigration or the local shop owners lining the harbour where you guys will be buying your wine and duty free? Of course, if you display the wrong flag.....

Some of you have also mentioned not to fly the coutesy flag until after clearing in?!? I'm not sure of the legalities there but I always thought that once you entered a country's territorial waters approaching harbour, you should be hoisting their (courtesy) flag - at least that's what I've always done. Further, I am careful to make sure the courtesy flag is above (higher than) the Q flag. Is that not the correct protocol?

[zeehag]

as long a si am in mexico i will fly a mexico flag. when i leave here i will fly the mexican flag until i get to the next country and i will fly theirs.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Surfer Girl

Interesting reading all your posts. I'm envious you Brits and Europeans can just duck across to an island like Jersey or to France, etc for a bit of a weekend... from Australia there's no ducking across to anywhere! Even Lord Howe Island is a serious hike and 'across the pond' to New Zealand, well we are talking about the Tasman Sea, one of the most notorious slabs of blue water in the world....

I digress, my take on 'Courtesy Flags' is just that - it's a courtesy shown and displayed by the visiting yacht. Why risk upsetting anyone, whether it be customs/immigration or the local shop owners lining the harbour where you guys will be buying your wine and duty free? Of course, if you display the wrong flag.....

Some of you have also mentioned not to fly the coutesy flag until after clearing in?!? I'm not sure of the legalities there but I always thought that once you entered a country's territorial waters approaching harbour, you should be hoisting their (courtesy) flag - at least that's what I've always done. Further, I am careful to make sure the courtesy flag is above (higher than) the Q flag. Is that not the correct protocol?

Yes that's the protocol I follow. Fly the courtesy flag upon entering territorial waters. Q flag is separate. I know this isn't strictly correct protocol, but it's one that most countries expect. Ie it's bad news to enter a port not flying a courtesy flag but flying a Q

Dave

Ps: "duty free "agh yes thoses memories , all gone now in the EU

[TheManWhoSpoke]

Originally Posted by Surfer Girl

...I'm envious you Brits and Europeans can just duck across to an island like Jersey or to France, etc for a bit of a weekend... from Australia there's no ducking across to anywhere! Even Lord Howe Island is a serious hike...

Not to further dampen your spirits, but Lord Howe Island is an Australian territory. So even if you made the 3 days sailing on rough open ocean, you still haven't left Australia! Nearest foreign countries are New Caledonia, Papua New Guinea, Vanuatu and of course New Zealand. Further away is Timor, Solomon Islands, Fiji, (Tasmania) :P

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by TheManWhoSpoke

Not to further dampen your spirits, but Lord Howe Island is an Australian territory. So even if you made the 3 days sailing on rough open ocean, you still haven't left Australia! Nearest foreign countries are New Caledonia, Papua New Guinea, Vanuatu and of course New Zealand. Further away is Timor, Solomon Islands, Fiji, (Tasmania) :P

Hee, hee, hee!

Now that is foreign! But, great cruising!

Cheers,

Jim