Florida boaters: Engage your marine industry vendors to fight the anchoring proposals

[k9medic]

Any law enforcement officer in the state of Florida can enforce state statutes.

Only officers that are employed by the municipality/town/city can enforce local ordinances. Example, a city police officer can write a speeding ticket under FSS 316. This same officer can write a citation for violation of a city noise ordinance but an FWC officer or even a deputy sheriff in the county that the city is in cannot.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by DotDun

The problem with the current regs, the muni has to wait until the vessel deteriorates into a derelict, even if the owner hasn't been on the boat for months.

oh yea, and the wheels of government move at lightning speed.

These proposed rules are NOT to deal with derelict vessels. As you have pointed out, a derelict vessel sits in the same place for years. Not the "no anchoring at night" or the "48 hour anchoring limit" some cities are proposing.

Totally different type of boat owner and boat.

I would vote for anchoring limits that exceed 1 year. Maybe...Maybe 6 months.... no to daylight only anchoring.

[Island Time O25]

Aahh, the everlasting urge to pretend to do something and enact more laws ratehr than enforce the existing ones. When do we learn? If ever...

Why reinvent the wheel? Why not just do to abandoned boats which are hazard to navigation what is already done to motor vehicles abandoned on public roads? After all a boat with an engine is a motor vehicle, at least according to states' laws on registration and use. Tow them to a yard and start the charge clock ticking and after a certain time of notification of the registered owner at the last registered address by cert. mail, and say after 30, 60, 90 days if the owner does not claim her and/or does not pay up, sell her at auction and if required bill the owner for the deficiency. Simple and effective.

And if the boat is not objectively a hazard to navigation nor in the channel - leave it be.

[reefhunter]

My experiences with Fla Leo's has not been very good over the past 20 or 30 yrs. Seems all of them want to ticket for obscure reasons - most of which don't make much sense. Then there are the judges who by their very nature always align themselves with the Leo/prosecutors to make the most money possible from the fines. Then there's the jurisdictional issues, which now causes us to totally avoid the state and its waters. There already plenty of laws on the books dealing with these issues. Lack of "teeth" in the laws and lack of enforcement is their problem.

I flew into Savannah last week to pick up a trawler and it's crew to return them home. There were possibly 15-16 abandoned shrimpers on the River above town. I asked about them and they said the state hadn't gotten around to salvaging them, because they'd spent an enormous amount of time and money tracking down owners, banks and insurers. That's what I doing there - retrieving a trawler for a bank. It's not something I normally do, but the money is good and there no hassles with Ga Leo's. They're just happy someone is solving a problem for them.

Maybe Fla needs to do that - spend a little time tracking instead of fining or creating more "laws".

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by DotDun

1) There is no 'further limiting' of authority. State law has always controlled anchoring. It wasn't until individual muni regs were challenged that caused a 're-write' of state law so that it is unambiguous.

2) My experience cruising Florida waters, I see as many or more FWC boats on the water than any other LEO, but I do frequent outside the IWC. USCG/CBP probably tie for second.

Are you purposely trying to be argumentative?

If you care to continue the discussion, please read the re-write. It will clear up your perception as to how this will limit muni authority.

[k9medic]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

Why reinvent the wheel? Why not just do to abandoned boats which are hazard to navigation what is already done to motor vehicles abandoned on public roads? After all a boat with an engine is a motor vehicle, at least according to states' laws on registration and use. Tow them to a yard and start the charge clock ticking and after a certain time of notification of the registered owner at the last registered address by cert. mail, and say after 30, 60, 90 days if the owner does not claim her and/or does not pay up, sell her at auction and if required bill the owner for the deficiency. Simple and effective.

And if the boat is not objectively a hazard to navigation nor in the channel - leave it be.

Here is the issue with that in a very simplified version - Wrecker companies will come and pick up abandoned cars/trucks and then tow them to an impound yard. After a period of time they are then crushed and sold for scrap. It's a fairly quick process and it usually takes a tow truck less than 5 minutes to hook up and haul away an old car.

For boats it's a much different story. After all of the paperwork is done You have to drag a boat to the ramp and have a trailer to get the boat out of the water. Then you have to hope that it didn't leak anything into the water during the process - fuel, oil, etc... After that you take it to a yard and wait. Once the wait time is over you can crush is and sell it for what??? It's most likely fiberglass so it has no value. The cost investment to do this is much more than the return.

Reefhunter - There are no doubt cities that do exactly that. Google Waldo and see what I am referring to. They just shut down their PD for that.

Officers that are on the water typically don't have the resources available to them that they need. 20 years ago we had the Florida Marine Patrol. They have since been merged into FWC which has multiple duties. My neighbor is a commanding officer with FWC and has three guys covering 6 counties. Since it's hunting season guess where they are - in the woods not on the water.

[DotDun]

This one cost the taxpayers $40,000 to remove, 1 of 12 derelicts in the county that collectively cost $100,000 during the annual derelict cleanup. The (non)owner moved it here, then wiggled out of paying as he had recently purchased the vessel from a divorce proceeding where one signatory refused to sign off, hence it was never legally sold. It's a shame, it was a real nice 70' vessel that got pulled out, chainsawed, and put in a dumpster.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by DotDun

This one cost the taxpayers $40,000 to remove, 1 of 12 derelicts in the county that collectively cost $100,000 during the annual derelict cleanup. The (non)owner moved it here, then wiggled out of paying as he had recently purchased the vessel from a divorce proceeding where one signatory refused to sign off, hence it was never legally sold. It's a shame, it was a real nice 70' vessel that got pulled out, chainsawed, and put in a dumpster.

So how would new anchoring restrictions stop this?

These abuses will occur under any regime; however, the new regulations will significantly impact the sailors who frequent of visit Florida. I still strongly encourage those of you who use marine industry services to encourage those commercial entities to lobby their state representative.

[JamuJoe]

I completed the survey, and found it to be quite reasonable and well constructed. We have cruised our FL registered sailboat along the panhandle and west coast down to St Petersburg. Derelicts are an eyesore as well as environmental insult, including those semi-derelicts that are occupied. Otherwise desirable anchorages such as Bradenton Beach have become squatters settlements with unseaworthy boats hanging onto flimsy frayed ground tackle just waiting for the next storm to send them crashing into piers or other vessels. Reasonable state wide regs are needed to bring consistency and enforcement to preserve the safety and beauty of FL waters.




Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by avb3

So how would new anchoring restrictions stop this?

The new proposed regs won't, but I already offered a solution. No wet storage, only occupied vessels. You own a boat you have to have a place to store it when not in use. That would take care of the majority of complaints (real or derived).

Originally Posted by avb3

These abuses will occur under any regime; however, the new regulations will significantly impact the sailors who frequent of visit Florida. I still strongly encourage those of you who use marine industry services to encourage those commercial entities to lobby their state representative.

I would rather have the FWC involved in negotiating the solution than allow paid politicians to decide of their own devices. I personally believe 150' from a residence is fair as I will not anchor any closer regardless. Should there be a time limit? Quite hard to convince anyone your a just 'passing thru' after you've been there for a month or two. How long is fair? 30 days? 60? 90? Eternity? If you're cruising, why would you want to anchor in the same place for several months?

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by JamuJoe

I completed the survey, and found it to be quite reasonable and well constructed. We have cruised our FL registered sailboat along the panhandle and west coast down to St Petersburg. Derelicts are an eyesore as well as environmental insult, including those semi-derelicts that are occupied. Otherwise desirable anchorages such as Bradenton Beach have become squatters settlements with unseaworthy boats hanging onto flimsy frayed ground tackle just waiting for the next storm to send them crashing into piers or other vessels. Reasonable state wide regs are needed to bring consistency and enforcement to preserve the safety and beauty of FL waters.

Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

I also took the survey. I noticed that it assumes that new legislation is a foregone conclusion. They only ask us how much are you willing to tolerate? The question of, if you think any legislation should be done or not is not allowed. If derelicts are the problem, then go after the abandoned vessels and leave the rest of us alone. Additionally, ceding the rules & enforcement of State public waterways to any locals opens the door to abuse, steeling and an untenable mess of tangled & conflicting rules. BTW, they propose to make the variable rules 'public' by posting in local news papers. DUH-useless. It would be like letting each village along I-75 to enact their own traffic laws AND not posting the rules.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by DotDun

This one cost the taxpayers $40,000 to remove, 1 of 12 derelicts in the county that collectively cost $100,000 during the annual derelict cleanup. The (non)owner moved it here, then wiggled out of paying as he had recently purchased the vessel from a divorce proceeding where one signatory refused to sign off, hence it was never legally sold. It's a shame, it was a real nice 70' vessel that got pulled out, chainsawed, and put in a dumpster.

$100K a year for a county? That's a frickin' bargain! That's like the cost of two county dump trucks.

Lets put that figure into perspective... the total Florida state budget in 2013 was just about $70 Billion.

As far as offsets go... are these homeowners going to start requesting that their driveways get an offset from the road? Same thing. I can pull my 1957 piece of junk in front of the governors house and there is nothing he could do about it - unless they own the roads as in a planned community. If the community is a planned community, and the builder actually builds the canals, then I can see not allowing any anchoring, otherwise the water rights are shared by all Florida residents equally

[zboss]

I would add that Rick Scott, our Governor, was only able to identify $69 million dollars in "lavish" and wasteful spending in the $77 Billion dollar 2014 budget.

There are 35 ocean waterfront counties in Florida, so assuming that each county only spent $100,000 removing derelict boats (and assuming they could not recover any of those monies), we are talking $3.5M of expense for an industry that generated $1.9 Billion dollars of taxable sales on new boats here in Florida alone!

In 2007 Southeast Florida generated an economic impact of $675M from the marine industry.

I'm sorry tack a .001% tax on the boaters classes to pay for removal of derelicts.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by zboss

$100K a year for a county? That's a frickin' bargain! That's like the cost of two county dump trucks.

Lets put that figure into perspective... the total Florida state budget in 2013 was just about $70 Billion.

Not sure that argument will get you very far......why should getting rid of a derelict boat cost the taxpayers anything??

[sailorboy1]

I took the survey and expect it to go into into the special response section for non-Florida zip codes. I doubt that out of state boaters really mean anything to Florida. Even boating businesses are little impacted by out of state boaters overall. While some of the proposals are "out there" some are trying to be able to correct local problems locally, which seems reasonable and in keeping with non Big Gov't.