Dual passports

[Mimsy]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The fact that you " denounce" such citizenship is not a legal requirement , merely a pledge. The US has dual citizenship agreements with many countries round the world. For those that it does not. You cannot hold two passports if one is US.

Dave


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Not true. My daughter has dual citizenship- Us and UK. I am US, hubby is UK, daughter was born in the US.

The US does not recognize dual citizenship. This is not an issue. When flying or clearing into the US, us the US passport. In the UK, use the UK. Anywhere else use which ever one you want.

If you are not a naturally born US citizen and have to apply and go through the hoops to gain citizenship THEN you must renounce. Otherwise it's just not an issue.

If you currently hold a US passport and were born in the US and are eligible for UK citizenship go ahead and apply with no worries. If I were planning on spending time in the S. Pacific or in the EU, I would certainly go for it.

If your boat is US documented and you use your UK passport to deal with Schengen issues, be aware that you are not VAT exempt so do your homework.

[Abaft]

Originally Posted by Cavalier

An alien can own a state-registered vessel (or title) and adorn it with a US flag.
In addition, a resident alien (US Person) can obtain a USCG OUPV (6-pack).
You have to be a US citizen to own (or be part owner) in a USCG documented vessel, and citizenship is a requirement for USCG Master's ticket.

The issue with have State-registration only, is that your vessel is not strictly classed as a "US flagged" vessel. You will not have a right to receive consular services etc (it's actually the boat which gets the consular services), and some countries do not recognize state-registration documents as legal title when clearing into their country. There are benefits to USCG documentation for a vessel, but all owners definitely need to be US Citizens (or US entities with US ownership structure).

You don´t need to have a US flagged vessel for recreation. If you want a commercial ship, your indications apply. But I can assure you, with whatever USA state registration you request assistance, USCG and whoever does USA emergency assistance will assist you. Your appreciation, that the ship is receiving the assistance is right. Even more, I have become privileges in the past by USA authorities just as you said, as the privilege to the boat. Some legality in the USA can be very helpful and interesting. Therefore, if you are a member in USA Yacht Clubs, make sure you have good Marine lawyers, they´ll tell you!

[Cavalier]

Originally Posted by Mimsy

Not true. My daughter has dual citizenship- Us and UK. I am US, hubby is UK, daughter was born in the US.





The US does not recognize dual citizenship. This is not an issue. When flying or clearing into the US, us the US passport. In the UK, use the UK. Anywhere else use which ever one you want.





If you are not a naturally born US citizen and have to apply and go through the hoops to gain citizenship THEN you must renounce. Otherwise it's just not an issue.





If you currently hold a US passport and were born in the US and are eligible for UK citizenship go ahead and apply with no worries. If I were planning on spending time in the S. Pacific or in the EU, I would certainly go for it.





If your boat is US documented and you use your UK passport to deal with Schengen issues, be aware that you are not VAT exempt so do your homework.

+1.. Same situation here.








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[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Mimsy

Not true. My daughter has dual citizenship- Us and UK. I am US, hubby is UK, daughter was born in the US.



The US does not recognize dual citizenship. This is not an issue. When flying or clearing into the US, us the US passport. In the UK, use the UK. Anywhere else use which ever one you want.



If you are not a naturally born US citizen and have to apply and go through the hoops to gain citizenship THEN you must renounce. Otherwise it's just not an issue.



If you currently hold a US passport and were born in the US and are eligible for UK citizenship go ahead and apply with no worries. If I were planning on spending time in the S. Pacific or in the EU, I would certainly go for it.



If your boat is US documented and you use your UK passport to deal with Schengen issues, be aware that you are not VAT exempt so do your homework.

This is simply not true since the Supreme Court judgement in 1967 that struck down the Bancroft laws in the US.

The US does recognise dual citizenship.

It does not require naturalised citizens to renounce their original citizenship( ie to actually do it ) . Simply it's a pledge, in many countries you cannot " renounce " your citizenship. The US de facto does nothing to legally require you to do anything in your original country , nor can the US force a foreign country to remove your citizenship

The policy has been in recent years to simply ignore the whole issue, the only problem can arise if you need security clearance. In that case US law can require ( but not force) you to legally renounce and return your non US passports

Most countries just like the US , require you to use the passport of the country your are a citizen of, hence on entering the UK , since you are a UK citizen, you must enter on that passport. Equally similarly in the US. That issue has nothing to do with " recognition ". Acceptance of dual ( or multiple citizenship ) is not not the same as cross recognition.


Note your comments on Schengen and VAT ( I presume on the boat ) are actually wrong. A US citizen could be liable to vat and equally a UK citizen might not be.

VAT law makes no distinction as to your citizenship , it's all about your " establishment " . That's the phrase used in the EU directive. Hence a US citizen with assets or income from an EU country ( or one residing there on a long term visa) could be regarded as " established and hence is not provided with any relief from import VAT.

Equally a UK citizen, living and residing and working say in the US , would not be established in the EU and hence would be entitled to the 18 month relief from import vat.

Dave


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[neilsty]

I have us and uk passports with the boat uscg registered in my wife's name who also has us and uk nationality. To travel around the med are we exempt from vat if we use our us passports, but not if we use our uk passports? I thought it depended on where your primary residence is located which for us is the USA

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by neilsty

I have us and uk passports with the boat uscg registered in my wife's name who also has us and uk nationality. To travel around the med are we exempt from vat if we use our us passports, but not if we use our uk passports? I thought it depended on where your primary residence is located which for us is the USA

Again, it's nothing to so with passports. You can travel on your uk passports and still be excempt from vat if you can substantiate the fact that you are not EU tax residents. ( like have US pay slips, a few utility bills etc )

Dave


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[Cavalier]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Again, it's nothing to so with passports. You can travel on your uk passports and still be excempt from vat if you can substantiate the fact that you are not EU tax residents. ( like have US pay slips, a few utility bills etc )

Dave


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That is correct. The EU boat VAT issue has everything to do with Tax domicile and not a great deal to do with citizenship. Evidently however, if you were to enter the EU with a US boat and a UK passport with no evidence whatsoever that you are non-EU resident, then they may well investigate you further on the assumption that you're a UK resident attempting to dodge VAT.








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[Cavalier]

Originally Posted by FutureCruiser2

I am a US citizen, but born in the UK and eligible for a British passport. My boat is a US documented vessel, but I also have it registered in Washington state. It has been suggested to me that having a UK passport would allow me greater freedom in cruising the South Pacific, particularly French Polynesia. Is this true? On the other hand, would having two passports in my possession cause difficulties? Would I have to be careful about checking into/out of one country on one passport, then into/out of another on the other passport?

I guess to amalgamate this thread into an answer you'll find useful:

Apply for the UK passport anyway as it gives you greater movement around the EU without visas. Due to the colonial and protectorate nature of many of the SE pacific islands, the passport will also simplify some of the visa requirements.

There's no issue carrying multiple passports as long as you clear in and out on the same passport and remember to match your passport to your nationality declaration flags when clearing in.





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[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Cavalier

I guess to amalgamate this thread into an answer you'll find useful:

Apply for the UK passport anyway as it gives you greater movement around the EU without visas. Due to the colonial and protectorate nature of many of the SE pacific islands, the passport will also simplify some of the visa requirements.

There's no issue carrying multiple passports as long as you clear in and out on the same passport and remember to match your passport to your nationality declaration flags when clearing in.





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Your last paragraph makes no sense, what do you mean. That you clear in on the flag of the boat !!

Dave


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[Cavalier]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Your last paragraph makes no sense, what do you mean. That you clear in on the flag of the boat !!

Dave


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..i must be having a bad communication day..




Of course you clear in under the flag of the vessel. The boat's flag doesn't change, I'm talking about the flag below the spreader indicating crew nationality. Courtesy flags. It'd come across as odd to immigration to have a US flagged vessel with a US flag on the spreader only to hand over a UK passport, no?








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[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Cavalier

..i must be having a bad communication day..




Of course you clear in under the flag of the vessel. The boat's flag doesn't change, I'm talking about the flag below the spreader indicating crew nationality. Courtesy flags. It'd come across as odd to immigration to have a US flagged vessel with a US flag on the spreader only to hand over a UK passport, no?








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Not at all, , what flag below the spreader indicating crew nationality.

The boat flag state has little relevance for leisure vessels, what primarily counts is the crew passports

Most immigration authorities have no concern in relation to the flag of the boat , and if the the crews passports are different , as long as the appropriate immigration/ visa requirements are complied with I relation to the passers used for clearing in and optionally out.

The practice of flying crew flags on the inferior crosstrees is an amusing affectation carried out by some mis guided cruisers and one that has absolutely no relevance to the authorities , you might as well be flying your laundry
Dave


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[Cavalier]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The practice of flying crew flags on the inferior crosstrees is an amusing affectation carried out by some mis guided cruisers and one that has absolutely no relevance to the authorities , you might as well be flying your laundry

That would also explain why I seem to be the only person on the planet who still uses an anchor ball at anchor or a day-marker when motor-sailing.



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[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Cavalier

That would also explain why I seem to be the only person on the planet who still uses an anchor ball or a day-marker when motor-sailing.








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No they are required under international law and the 1978 SOLAS convention ( COLREGS ) all good sailors should. Be using them. Crew flags on the other hand have the same status as flying ARC flags, Guinness flags or skull and crossbones flags

Dave


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[pbiJim]

A person that I know was born an Italian citizen, got a US green card & recently US citizenship. That person traveled back to Italy on their Italian passport & forgot to bring the US passport. When returning to the US, a US passport was required. That person had to go to a US consulate in Italy & get an "emergency temporary passport" to get back into the US. That person was told that if Italy was entered using a US passport, then the restrictions placed on US citizens would apply while in Italy. If Italy was entered using the Italian passport, then the laws regarding Italian citizens would apply while in Italy. When entering the US, a US citizen must use their US passport.

That person still holds both passports. That person enters Italy as an Italian & enters the US as a US citizen every time now.

[Cavalier]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

... crossbones flags

...don't get me started: I've always found the sight of a jolly-roger flying boat filled with bear-can crushing bobble-heads a painful poke in the eye! Always wondered if they would realize how unfunny pirates really are if they got boarded for real..