Dual passports

[Abaft]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Not at all, , what flag below the spreader indicating crew nationality.

The boat flag state has little relevance for leisure vessels, what primarily counts is the crew passports

Most immigration authorities have no concern in relation to the flag of the boat , and if the the crews passports are different , as long as the appropriate immigration/ visa requirements are complied with I relation to the passers used for clearing in and optionally out.

The practice of flying crew flags on the inferior crosstrees is an amusing affectation carried out by some mis guided cruisers and one that has absolutely no relevance to the authorities , you might as well be flying your laundry
Dave


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Whether Immigration nor Port authority nor any other authority of a country looks at the flag you are setting on your boat. They look at the fact, that you set the flag of the country you are entering and raise their flag and they care about the yellow flag to distinct, if you have been cleared or not.
Actually, most of the cruisers I find underway, they don´t run on their US flag anymore, as the resistance to American Citizens is growing every day. So, cruisers enter the flag of the country and the yellow flag and period... that´s it!

[hellosailor]

Abaft-
"Hellosailor, there is no law in the USA that does not allow an alien to have a boat. "
I never said or implied anything of the kind. You said that you have a "US flagged boat". That means, registered and documented with the Federal Republic of the United States, via the USCG registry.

It specifically does not mean a state registered boat. Aliens can have state registered boats, but those are not US flagged, and they do not gain the statutory benefits (and obligations) of being US flagged.

Yes, the laws are very specific. A US flagged vessel receives specific benefits which may include the full power of the US federal government and military. Those benefits are reserved for US citizens only, and the vessel must be at least 51% US-citizen-owned.

Many aliens are confused by the difference between our States, which are considered sovereign states but still subject to our federal republic, which is "the" US sovereign state in international matters.

You can't legally own a US-flagged boat unless you are a citizen. This is like saying you have a "US driver's license". There is no such thing, each state issues their own licenses, but the US itself does not issue them to the general public.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Abaft

Whether Immigration nor Port authority nor any other authority of a country looks at the flag you are setting on your boat. They look at the fact, that you set the flag of the country you are entering and raise their flag and they care about the yellow flag to distinct, if you have been cleared or not.
Actually, most of the cruisers I find underway, they don´t run on their US flag anymore, as the resistance to American Citizens is growing every day. So, cruisers enter the flag of the country and the yellow flag and period... that´s it!

With the fact that most check-ins for boats are done land-side. I see less and less usage of the pratique or " Q" flag. In fact in recent years , I've forgotten it more times then I've remembered.

I never forgot courtesy flags though, mine go up on entering their territorial waters.


I see no real evidence of resistance to American citizens , rather a growing perceived fear of it in Americans.
Dave




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[F51]

Originally Posted by Cavalier

...don't get me started: I've always found the sight of a jolly-roger flying boat filled with bear-can crushing bobble-heads a painful poke in the eye! Always wondered if they would realize how unfunny pirates really are if they got boarded for real..

Right on. Pirates are not "funny" and the jollly roger is not "cute."
sorry for the thread drift--I couldn't keep my mouth shut.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Abaft

I do have dual passport, Swiss and Ecuadorian and a US flagged boat. You can wherever you go say, you have a dual passport and take advantage of the British, if your country of origin allows dual citizen ship.

By "US flagged" , do you mean USCG Documented ? It is illegal for anyone but a US citizen or a US corporation to own a USCG Documented Vessel.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

By "US flagged" , do you mean USCG Documented ? It is illegal for anyone but a US citizen or a US corporation to own a USCG Documented Vessel.

To everyone outside the US, "flagged" means a federally documented boat, ie a boat that is legally indentified as belonging to the flag state ( state as in country ). The requirement for citizenship is common in many countries just like it is in the US.

Merely hanging the maritime ensign out the back, is not an indication of flagging. In the UK we don't need registration , but a UK flagged boat would clearly be registered.

Dave


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[BambooSailor]

It has been suggested to me that having a UK passport would allow me greater freedom in cruising the South Pacific, particularly French Polynesia.

To get back to OP, yes, there are definitely advantages:
1. you can easily extend your stay by another 3 months in Papeete
2. you do not have to post a bond

[pbiJim]

Originally Posted by F51

Pirates are not "funny" and the jollly roger is not "cute."

You have obviously never been to Gasparilla.

[Mimsy]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

This is simply not true since the Supreme Court judgement in 1967 that struck down the Bancroft laws in the US.

The US does recognise dual citizenship.

It does not require naturalised citizens to renounce their original citizenship( ie to actually do it ) . Simply it's a pledge, in many countries you cannot " renounce " your citizenship. The US de facto does nothing to legally require you to do anything in your original country , nor can the US force a foreign country to remove your citizenship

The policy has been in recent years to simply ignore the whole issue, the only problem can arise if you need security clearance. In that case US law can require ( but not force) you to legally renounce and return your non US passports

Most countries just like the US , require you to use the passport of the country your are a citizen of, hence on entering the UK , since you are a UK citizen, you must enter on that passport. Equally similarly in the US. That issue has nothing to do with " recognition ". Acceptance of dual ( or multiple citizenship ) is not not the same as cross recognition.


Note your comments on Schengen and VAT ( I presume on the boat ) are actually wrong. A US citizen could be liable to vat and equally a UK citizen might not be.

VAT law makes no distinction as to your citizenship , it's all about your " establishment " . That's the phrase used in the EU directive. Hence a US citizen with assets or income from an EU country ( or one residing there on a long term visa) could be regarded as " established and hence is not provided with any relief from import VAT.

Equally a UK citizen, living and residing and working say in the US , would not be established in the EU and hence would be entitled to the 18 month relief from import vat.

Dave


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I never said you would be exempt from VAT, quite the contrary actually. Perhaps I did not word it correctly. My point still stands- do your homework as every case is different depending on lenght of stay, etc.

[svlamorocha]

Originally Posted by Cavalier

That is correct. The EU boat VAT issue has everything to do with Tax domicile and not a great deal to do with citizenship. Evidently however, if you were to enter the EU with a US boat and a UK passport with no evidence whatsoever that you are non-EU resident, then they may well investigate you further on the assumption that you're a UK resident attempting to dodge VAT.

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You are mixing tax residence and tax domicile that are different things, most particularly in the UK, where domicile can be different than residence and ordinary residence for more than a decade.

For VAT tax domicile is not relevant, what matters is something closer to residence. Dave uses the precise word that I think is establishment.

Domicile may be relevant for UK income tax on certain income/earnings and US estate tax but that is another story altogether.

[FutureCruiser2]

I am well and truly impressed by the range and depth of answers I got to my question, ...and all in less than 24 hours. Thanks to everyone. It makes sense to me that if I check into a country with one of my two passports, I should check back out of it with the same passport. I guess the wrinkle I'm interested in is checking out of one country using my US passport and headed for, say, French Polynesia I get an exit document that, I presume, says I'm a US citizen. I have to show that exit document (I forget what it's called) when I go into French Polynesia, but I'll want to use my UK passport for entry. That will confuse some officials, I'm sure. Will it actually cause a legal problem?

[StuM]

Generally, the "exit document" is for the boat, not for crew members (it is called different things in different countries). Just make sure that your entry crew manifest shows the appropriate citizenship for each crew member and you'll be fine.

My daughter travels between PNG and Aus quite frequently - she carries two passports - clears out and back in to PNG on her PNG passport but clears into and out of Aus on her NZ passport - it means we don't need to worry about visas at all for her.

[cheoah]

Do the benefits to UK travelers extend to commonwealth passport holders? I'm a US-Bahamas dual national, curious if any of the other commonwealth citizens know. Or anyone.

Good thread. Dual citizenship is complicated in some instances, and I don't mean which passport to clear in and out of respective countries. Tax implications and being subject to laws of citizens requires one to have common sense at the very least.

[goboatingnow]

Do the benefits to UK travelers extend to commonwealth passport holder

In the main -- No. ( with a few wrinkles )


dave

[pdf27]

Originally Posted by FutureCruiser2

I guess the wrinkle I'm interested in is checking out of one country using my US passport and headed for, say, French Polynesia I get an exit document that, I presume, says I'm a US citizen. I have to show that exit document (I forget what it's called) when I go into French Polynesia, but I'll want to use my UK passport for entry. That will confuse some officials, I'm sure. Will it actually cause a legal problem?

Your UK passport will list "United States" on the photo page under "Other Citizenships" (or some very similar phrase - don't have mine to hand to check). Show them that and all will be explained.