Where to buy... vintage style nav lights....LED

[Jim Cate]

And of course, if you really are concerned about paperwork and litigation? There's nothing toi stop you from submitting your own actual lights to the USCG for testing.

Are you sure about this? My impression has been that the testing was done by an independent laboratory at the expense of the vendor (and a serious expense at that), and the results submitted to the CG for approval. I do not believe the CG runs a testing lab at all.

Could be wrong... not my field of expertise.

Jim

[hellosailor]

You could be right, Jim. I'm not familiar with the exact process. I always figured if the rules called for two-mile visibility and it was SO easy to get double that...the hell with the certification, when that only guarantees me a mediocre product.

Same reason I wear an unapproved PFD (pre-approvals) and keep the Type2 in the bottom of the lazarette, where it can comfort my knees. No one has ever asked to see the approval numbers on my PFD, they're happy just to see it being worn.

[billgewater]

i recently replaced my masthead light fittings as the coloured plastic was looking a bit sad. The new nav. lights had LED's installed and all was well until I tried my TV with the nav. lights on. The TV antenna is about 40 cm (16 of those old fashioned inches) from the light. The TV refused to work until I turned the nav. light off. The power cable for the lights and the powered TV co-ax share the same in mast conduit. Checked it out with a local electrician who explained why it was so. Something to do with the fact that some LEDs (high powered ones) switch on and off rapidly (to save power?) and the subsequent radiated signal sends the powered TV antenna ballistic. Should not be an issue with deck lights but the electrician says that on his cat the mast head lights do affect his TV antenna on the targa bar - a separation of about 15 m (about 49 ft).
Maybe worth asking about when talking to suppliers.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

I doubt you would find vintage nav lights powered by LEDs, simply because no one made them new, and few retrofits have ever been given USCG testing.

There is NOTHING IN THE USCG RULES that requires you to buy them "certified" if you are a civilian recreational vessel.

You can easily try to retrofit them, and you can easily TEST the retrofit and record their compliance, so any legal or insurance questions are dismissed.

Exact spectroanalysis of the color is not going to be an issue as long as "red is red and green is green" and that is normally kept in line by using red led's in the red light, green led's in the green light. DO NOT use white led's, they will not comply.

The simplest approach is to get the brightest led's you can fit in the fixture, put them in, and then go tow, three, five miles away and see how it looks. If you can see it...well gee, that pretty much passes COLREGs. It can't be "too bright". So, yes, you have to fiddle around a bit to ensure that whatever you put in is lighting the whole sector. And you'd want to buy premium led's from a reputable source.

But if you're restoring a boat...no reason why this job should be a stopper. Odds are that when you are done, you will have something way better than any retail purchase would be. And of course, if you really are concerned about paperwork and litigation? There's nothing toi stop you from submitting your own actual lights to the USCG for testing. Simply owning "certified" lights does not diminish the more important question, as to whether whatever lights you had, were working properly at the time. Don't let the paperwork terrorize you.

I think you are correct about that, there is if you are a vessel manufacturer though. But the OP was worrying about insurance company being picky about it, and if it actually came to that (laugh laugh) then you better worry if your Hans Christian was using USCG certified lights in the first place was my thought.
Then there is ABYC. ABYC is not required at all, it's voluntary, says so right in ABYC. Yet many sailors on this forum seem to worry that a boat complies...

[Mike Banks]

I bought LED lights--I think they looked the same or similar to the ones you show--they cost me nineteen dollars for the pair on a clearance sale--they look clear but one lights up red, the other green.

So--my point being that they do make them--but finding them is another thing.

Personally I like my lights to be fairly high above deck for visibility and less likelihood of damage. Too close to the waves means brief visibility at best.

[hellosailor]

The electrician was pretty much right about the "LED noise". LEDs don't make any noise, but there normally is an associated regulator chip, which usually will make noise, and there may be assorted control chips which pulse the LEDs on and off very rapidly, so they look steady but actually are turned off 1/2 the time, saving a lot of power and letting them run cooler, which means longer life.

"Any advanced technology will be indistiguishable from magic." Arthur C. Clarke.

If it is sold for marine use, especially masthead use where a VHF can be expected, there's no excuse for noisy LEDs.

[jimbunyard]

Apparently the manufacturer has a big influence on the RFI output of various LED bulbs.

LEDBenchmark - LED EMI Interference Issues



Radio interference from LED lighting | EMC and Regulatory Compliance



but, also apparently, since I've never tried it, the RFI can be reduced or eliminated by use of a ferrite coil on the power wire.

How to Remove Radio Interference Using Ferrite Coils for HID and LED Headlights - Better Automotive Lighting

[Chris777]

Originally Posted by Rowglide

I would love to just swap out the bulbs, that would be easy and inexpensive.

But there are a bunch of reasons why I won't:
Fresnel lens not being optimized for a multi element LED bulb
Color possibly not falling into acceptable wavelengths
Angles not meeting requirements
Lights are approved/designed as a system(Housing, Lens, Bulb, Bulb Mount), changing the bulb type would void its USCG, COLREG, RINA and other type approvals.

But most important to me...
Insurance companies tend to seek a way out of payouts. In the unfortunate event of a collision, I feel confident that they would take full advantage of a Navigation light "modification" to reduce if not eliminate their obligations.

Jim

I really think you are over complicating this issue. I have replaced mine with LED's and they are now brighter. Angle will not change.

Good luck

[BlackHeron]

We have upgraded all of our navigation lights on our HR-35 with the series 33 LED navigation lights from Aqua Signal and they come with a choice of white or black plastic covers -exactly what you are trying to avoid.

However they do sell a chrome-plated cover which looks pretty nice although they are very difficult to source and that is probably because they cost more than the fixture itself. One could always paint the the plastic snap-on cover with a chalky green spray paint and pretend they were bronze with a heavy patina

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/aqua-...96?recordNum=8

I've seen many horrible LED "upgrades" that look white from certain angles of the bow light(s) -or the green looks blue. The worst are the combo bow lights with a single bulb in them. From the exact front they look white as the construction method of fusing the red and green lenses isn't up to the added brightness of the LED and white light escapes where the two colored lenses meet with brighter LED upgrade lamps.

I was once witness to a sail-on-sail collision which happened with a sailboat we were following a few boatlengths behind in twilight conditions that had just recently passed us. The oncoming boat coming towards both of us had a combo bow light which looked white from the front and the helmsman on the boat that had just gone by us testified that she thought it was another over-taking situation, having just overtaken us believing here was another boat we were following, when in fact it was one we were coming up upon in the distance head to head. I gave a written statement that yes, it did in fact look white along with other facts in the case.

The maritime board ruled against the boat with the "upgraded" LED fixture and found them mostly at fault in the collision even though they were technically the stand-on vessel (they were on a starboard downwind tack while us and the other boat that hit them were both reaching on a port tack -us having just been passed on the windward side getting our wind stolen)

[BlackHeron]

I just found the chrome covers. When I first bought mine they were much harder to find and cost more, now they just cost nearly as much as the lights.



https://www.fisheriessupply.com/aqua...s-steel-covers

They are still a bit space-agey looking, much smaller in size, and without a large traditional colored lens. The waterproof LED element in them doesn't have a lens and looks mostly uncolored when it isn't lit -all you can see is a greenish circuit board inside the encapsulated element with a yellowish LED chip in the center. You really have to make sure you don't get the port and starboard fixtures mixed up as they look identical until they are powered-on. But they are 2NM rated and are the brightest Nav lights I have seen. Our boat is easy to spot at a distance. Even in bright daylight it is obvious the lights are on at a distance, they are just that bright. At 0.18 amp each, all three of them together only draw 0.54A which is barely more than a half of an amp which is just a tiny fraction of even one incandescent nav light.

We have a vintage Hallberg-Rassy and I'd rather be seen at night and be power-efficient than care about keeping that "vintage look." After seeing a collision happen right in front of us, caused in great deal by poorly-installed LED upgrade lights, and hearing that sickening crunch of tons of fiberglass hitting fiberglass it made me decide what was really important out there.

[Rowglide]

Well this has stimulated some discussion....
and an idea. The bronze housings are quite large. I might be able to mutilate them and insert a pair of complete 2nm lights making sure I do not block the light in any direction to allow for correct anges. Basically make them into shells.
Hello die grinder!