Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 16-10-2009, 17:07   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: McLean Va
Boat: pearson triton 1962
Posts: 15
I second that Cheechako, injecting wet balsa end grain mulch don't work. Injecting any kind of resin will not displace water. We are not talking about bonding anything, we are talking air void filling attempts after drying attempts. Any yard that states they can 100% fix de-bonded core by injecting spends more time in court than fixing boats.

It's clearly going to be a process of discovery for Geoff. He's had and paid for many of the common problems found on far east boats. This is not a little Frisco Flier that you can patch and pray. And when then keel delams out, strip her to pay for the chain saw and dumpster fees. He's got big bucks in this boat and hopes to keep it in the inventory for ten years plus.

As Osiris observed if that stink keel juice is left to osmoticly ferment, one day he will be faced with keel blisters the size of hub caps and a survey stating " port risk ashore only, structural unseaworthy hull". I know I would have insomnia if It was my boat and hell yes I would be worried. It is not going away,he's not making it up and statistics sugest if he blows it off he will have some splanin ta do after he kicks himself in the ass down the road. This is a problem you want to be proactive about and after discovery he may need to get medieval with it. Wish you luck Geoff, hope you get all dry holes. After a couple days ashore check the hull rudder fittings for moisture.
__________________

__________________
Delaminated is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2009, 17:36   #17
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,369
well... I hear ya.... I guess a few test holes will tell the tale.... i'm just reluctant to believe there is a fix without cutting the whole keel off! and if there is 1.5 inches of glass down there...... well I guess decisions have to be made.. Any common bilge is wet and steamy most of the life of the boat... is this any different than a little moisture between the ballast and the glass....? maybe somewhat... there is circulation,,,, but the glass stays pretty wet.. I just hate to see someone go too far out of fear.... will the boat actually be better, stronger after coring and cutting? As said above, many commercial north pacific boats were built with iron cement ballast that had no glass layer encapsualting it...... and those boats work very hard and carry a lot of load.... How often have we seen larger more abundant blisters where the deep bilge is on a boat?
__________________

__________________
Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2009, 19:21   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: McLean Va
Boat: pearson triton 1962
Posts: 15
Cheechako, remember we are dealing with chinese gp resin, all quality control bets are off. I have not seen stink keel on a US built boat. Bring a 55gal drum of that far east stuff into the laminating shop at Westport and they will crack the barrel and pronounce it fit to build the flower pots in the lobby only.

The only concern w/US boats w/wet keels is freeze expansion trama that puts stress on the sides and deforms the shape. Here in Annapolis and the NE we go through many freeze/thaw cycles.Most boats are hauled during winter layup and do not sit in the warm water.

Will the boat actually be better, stronger da no. He is trying to preserve what he's got.A seaworthy boat.
__________________
Delaminated is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-10-2009, 13:13   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Boat: 51' Formosa Ketch "Un Mundo"
Posts: 170
Well here's another update and another big thanks for you guys caring enough about another mariner to spend your time thinking about all of this. Wish I'd had this kind of thoughtful input over the last 9 yrs because I've indeed had to solve a lot of problems. Update: that rain the other day (pretty rare here) has been quite telling. Found a fair amount of fresh water running from under the little forepeak area, (likely through the samson posts caulking, hauser fittings; note: boat came with teak here and at the aft cockpit, and I relaid the cockpit a few yrs a go but never did this area - absolutely going to now). Anyway, water ran back, sure enough settling in and around the sump box area. I dried it up, and the next day with dry weather and a dry bilge, I laid out some dry barrier towels (those synthetic micro super absorb things) in a couple of strategic areas. The next morning one of the towels was wet!! Traced a tiny tiny trickle to the pressure valve on the Isotherm Hot Water Heater - the trickle ran hidden along the stringer, dropping down right at the sump box behind a loom of wiring. Importantly, the barrier towel was wet, and the sump box was dry.
So here is what I'm thinking: the shipwright guy in my yard is probably right. The water that has been showing up in my bilge and stinking it up, has been standing water built up over time (some from fwd as he originally suspected, and some from the hot water heater, all found it's way around and through the weak areas at the sump box, and that unsealed screw that held the bilge pump switch, which is above and adjacent to the sump box, and this water has been building up there in some voids in the laminates for years. When I pulled that screw that clear, but resin-smelling water gurgling out allowed what had built up below the surface to flow. This is consistent with what I've witnessed when hauling the boat; a very minor blister job over 5 yrs ago (small blisters almost entirely high on the hull) with no recurrence since.
That being said, when hauling next I plan on doing a little further exploration: I like the idea of drilling out a 1/4" hole above the ballast and see what comes out. And in the meantime I need to rebuild the forpeak deck (looking at Plasteak,)and reseal everything there, and figure out what the heck with the hot water heater pressure valve, which I replaced (because it leaked) a couple of years ago. Meanwhile I've turned down the temp (again) and I've attached a temporary water catch cup.
__________________
Geoff H. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-10-2009, 15:40   #20
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
That pressure valve probably isn't leaking but doing it's job. As you heat water, it expands and the valve relieves that by letting out a bit of water. Connect a hose into a small plastic container and see what happens. Maybe it evaporates quickly enough.

cheers,
Nick.
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-10-2009, 22:28   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Boat: 51' Formosa Ketch "Un Mundo"
Posts: 170
god i love this forum. really. i'm a new addict. can't stop reading. better than porn.

thanks nick, was hoping someone would pick up on this part of the thread. i have a small cup hanging under the valve now; if that works/prevents water from making it's way around my bilge, i'll fashion something more lasting.
best,
geoff
__________________
Geoff H. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-10-2009, 00:39   #22
Registered User
 
James S's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Yemen & Lebanon... the sailboat is in Lebenon, the dhow is in Yemen
Boat: 1978 CT48 & 65ft Cargo Dhow
Posts: 5,816
Images: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff H. View Post
god i love this forum. really. i'm a new addict. can't stop reading. better than porn.
Lets not let getting caught up in the moment effect our sense of reason
__________________
James
S/V Arctic Lady
I love my boat, I can't afford not to!
James S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-10-2009, 14:43   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: the golden state
Boat: pilot cutter
Posts: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Intentional Drifter View Post
I'm not familiar with Formosas, ID
The Formosa 51 is the boat from the movie 'Captain Ron'. I thought all sailors knew that
__________________
Not Sure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-10-2009, 14:55   #24
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,369
I'm having trouble understanding the playout entirely... but that water from the heater going to the bilge should nto be an issue...? That's what bilges are for. If the water cant flow maybe consider remving what is in it's path or creating a limber.....
__________________
Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-10-2009, 15:21   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Boat: 51' Formosa Ketch "Un Mundo"
Posts: 170
Cheech,
Agreed. Just asking if it's possible that with a improperly sealed screw hole right in the path of two streams of water, this might be the cause of water running down into a cavity that seems to exist exactly there?
__________________
Geoff H. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-10-2009, 20:13   #26
CF Adviser
 
Intentional Drifter's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pac NW
Boat: Boatless, for now, Cat enthusiast
Posts: 1,283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Sure View Post
The Formosa 51 is the boat from the movie 'Captain Ron'. I thought all sailors knew that
Incredible as it may sound, I have never actually seen that movie. I remember seeing about 10 minutes of it on another boat that was throwing a sundowner party, and the Goombah Smash may have impaired even that little bit of recall!

I've gathered, though, that I must have missed some critical developmental milestone in my life as a sailor, as I have heard the reference used so often. Occasionally even on the VHF (e.g., "Way to miss that marker, there, Cap't Ron!" Oh, wait a minute -- was he talking to me?)

Sorry for the diversion; and now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

ID
__________________
Intentional Drifter

Observations are gold; hypotheses, silver; and conclusions, bronze.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.--Ben Franklin

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.--Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Intentional Drifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-10-2009, 20:23   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Boat: 51' Formosa Ketch "Un Mundo"
Posts: 170
quite funny. thanks for making me smile. and for those awesome quotes. especially like the one about value of observation vs conclusions. quoted it today at work.
__________________
Geoff H. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-10-2009, 20:45   #28
Senior Cruiser
 
osirissail's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: A real life Zombie from FL
Boat: Gulfstar 53 - Osiris
Posts: 5,416
Images: 2
Capn Ron is a classic boaters movie - totally unrealistic but pure fun. Except for the part at the end where Capn Ron docks the boat at 6 kts. That's how I have to do it with a 60 footer and no bow thruster as a single hander. And I have had people on the dock running just like in the movie. Rent the movie, so you will be "in the know" on the jokes/references."
__________________
osirissail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-10-2009, 13:13   #29
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,369
Cap'n Ron is the man!

Yea, I love that scene. Done it many times as I like to come in "hot" .... at least with a big boat. Fortunately, I've been lucky to end up like Capt Ron on most of them. The mess in the pants is another thing entirely...
__________________

__________________
Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bilge

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Water in the Bilge Charlie Construction, Maintenance & Refit 11 05-12-2008 08:10
Where's the water coming from??? Dream Maker Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 6 28-11-2007 03:02
Bilge keel offshore? witzgall Monohull Sailboats 9 31-05-2007 01:18
No water coming into the head eldiente Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 4 26-12-2006 18:45
Have water in the bilge, LEAK? But where? myblueheaven Construction, Maintenance & Refit 0 24-09-2005 13:04



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:40.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.