Seacock warning, probably most relevant to Australians

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Pegu Club

This^^^
We Replaced all of our through hulls and seacocks with Groco fittings when we did our refit in 2015, quality product.

Fair winds,

It is, as are their flanged seacocks and those from Apollo. I don’t understand why people would argue against that but am pretty sure it is because they don’t have it and can’t live with the idea that what they have isn’t the best.

I was born and raised in Europe, love many things from Europe incl. such things as floating AC power systems aboard boats, but the seacocks or rather lack thereof on European boats is nothing defend or to be proud of. Even when these flawed valves fail or otherwise need replacement, they still defend them.
When something on my boat is flawed then I’m the first to comment negatively on it, then I decide if I can live with it or if it needs replacing and how high on my list that goes. I guess others have the extra option of arguing that their flawed system is actually just fine or even better

[Pegu Club]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

It is, as are their flanged seacocks and those from Apollo. I don’t understand why people would argue against that but am pretty sure it is because they don’t have it and can’t live with the idea that what they have isn’t the best.

I was born and raised in Europe, love many things from Europe incl. such things as floating AC power systems aboard boats, but the seacocks or rather lack thereof on European boats is nothing defend or to be proud of. Even when these flawed valves fail or otherwise need replacement, they still defend them.
When something on my boat is flawed then I’m the first to comment negatively on it, then I decide if I can live with it or if it needs replacing and how high on my list that goes. I guess others have the extra option of arguing that their flawed system is actually just fine or even better

I agree, a short while back I read a thread, maybe here, don’t specifically recall, but it stated that some of the European sail boat manufactures were saying something along the.lines that thru hulls/seacocks should be replaced every five years, I was a bit taken back as according to what I had read previously these. Items will last decades if properly maintained. My first sailboat was a 1975 Bristol 24, it had the original bronze seacocks and they worked very well. Considering the cost of a new forty-ish foot boat one would think higher quality bits would be used, but I guess I’m a bit old fashioned in my thinking..j

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Even when these flawed valves fail or otherwise need replacement, they still defend them.

I suspect a lot of owners don't know that their valves don't work. Sure they may turn the handle and it may feel like it's closing the valve, but how do they know for sure? this of course isn't just an EU problem.

So do they test them? nah, they just close them and depart.

Our story. I had my doubts about the heads discharge seacock, despite the handle closing and feeling like it was closed in photo 1. Investigations would be on a drying slip between the tides, so I bought a Trudesign valve just in case. Photo 2 is what I found with the valved "closed"

Photo 3 is the replacement Trudesign on the original bronze mushroom through hull. I plan on replacing the bronze through hull in May when we next lift out as it has a grill on the outside which I am not in favour of. It will be like for like mushroom through hull.

Earlier it was mentioned that they need to withstand 400kgf and 200kgf for a 'plastic valve' wasn't good enough. In order to apply that sort of force would require some boat dismantling and then serious acrobatics on my boat to get either a person or heavy object near them. I am happy with bronze or plastic mushroom through hulls.

Pete

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Pete7

I suspect a lot of owners don't know that their valves don't work. Sure they may turn the handle and it may feel like it's closing the valve, but how do they know for sure? this of course isn't just an EU problem.

So do they test them? nah, they just close them and depart.

Our story. I had my doubts about the heads discharge seacock, despite the handle closing and feeling like it was closed in photo 1. Investigations would be on a drying slip between the tides, so I bought a Trudesign valve just in case. Photo 2 is what I found with the valved "closed"

Photo 3 is the replacement Trudesign on the original bronze mushroom through hull. I plan on replacing the bronze through hull in May when we next lift out as it has a grill on the outside which I am not in favour of. It will be like for like mushroom through hull.

Earlier it was mentioned that they need to withstand 400kgf and 200kgf for a 'plastic valve' wasn't good enough. In order to apply that sort of force would require some boat dismantling and then serious acrobatics on my boat to get either a person or heavy object near them. I am happy with bronze or plastic mushroom through hulls.

Pete

I don’t know the valve you used but it’s looking good because it is designed with the hose going up vertical so one can’t step on it.

When you replace the skin fitting then you could use a flanged adapter plate to upgrade it further. If your fittings are BSP thread then I think flanged adapters with BSP exist as well.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I don’t know the valve you used but it’s looking good because it is designed with the hose going up vertical so one can’t step on it.

When you replace the skin fitting then you could use a flanged adapter plate to upgrade it further. If your fittings are BSP thread then I think flanged adapters with BSP exist as well.

The "plastic" valve, which isn't plastic but some sort of reinforced material is a Trudesign valve, becoming popular in the UK and priced similarly to bronze or a bit cheaper. They also do through hulls in the same material but being BSP straight threads can be fitted to bronze fittings if required.

A flange might be nice, but it's very close to the raised indent for the bilge keel, see the big bolt. Hull is 20mm GRP and then about 10mm of hardwood backing. The whole area is under a saloon seat in a corner so pretty well protected. However, you make a good point and there is a great photo on Rods (Maine sail) page of a broken pipe that has a 90 deg bend in it. Step on that and "Oops"

Pete

[GILow]

And I just checked the other seacock from the same batch. No surprise, exactly the same problem. I am at least feeling a bit relieved as I glassed over the two biggest remaining below-the-waterline skin fittings at the last slipping, and they were two really big buggers from this same batch.

So, I’ve got two to replace now. Time to go diving, the first one will be easy but the second one is going to be a real PITA to fix.

[NevilleCat]

Originally Posted by GILow

And I just checked the other seacock from the same batch. No surprise, exactly the same problem. I am at least feeling a bit relieved as I glassed over the two biggest remaining below-the-waterline skin fittings at the last slipping, and they were two really big buggers from this same batch.

So, I’ve got two to replace now. Time to go diving, the first one will be easy but the second one is going to be a real PITA to fix.

Can I just ask, what exactly is the problem?
Is the handle broken away from the shaft?
Is the ball broken away from the shaft?
Is the shaft brass or S/S or something else on your one?
Just trying to work out what has failed.

[JPA Cate]

Better work fast, Feb.'s here.

Good luck with it, Matt.

Ann

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

It is, as are their flanged seacocks and those from Apollo. I don’t understand why people would argue against that but am pretty sure it is because they don’t have it and can’t live with the idea that what they have isn’t the best.

I was born and raised in Europe, love many things from Europe incl. such things as floating AC power systems aboard boats, but the seacocks or rather lack thereof on European boats is nothing defend or to be proud of. Even when these flawed valves fail or otherwise need replacement, they still defend them.
When something on my boat is flawed then I’m the first to comment negatively on it, then I decide if I can live with it or if it needs replacing and how high on my list that goes. I guess others have the extra option of arguing that their flawed system is actually just fine or even better

I don't think anyone in this thread has argued against the idea that a real integral flanged seacock is the strongest design. I think everyone agrees that this is stronger and better than other types of sea cocks.


The question is different -- whether the European type is good enough, and whether you really need real integral flanged sea cocks. Everyone will have to make up his own mind and make his own choices, but I think practical experience shows that the European type, if well executed and reasonably well maintained, is OK. Not best, but good enough. There are not a significant number of boats sinking because of failed European type sea cocks (excluding those criminal brass ones used by Groupe B).



In my opinion a much bigger issue than the type of sea cock, is how the plumbing is connected, and how accessible all this stuff is. I've seen a lot of boats (and even owned boats) with sea cocks and hull penetrations which are practically impossible to reach in an emergency and really difficult to inspect. All these fittings, and particularly the hoses and hose clamps, are things which should be easily visible so you can look at pretty often and catch problems before they become emergencies. The best sea cock in the world won't help you if a hose splits or hose clamps corrode and give way. And how many boats don't even have bilge alarms?

[GILow]

Originally Posted by NevilleCat

Can I just ask, what exactly is the problem?

Is the handle broken away from the shaft?

Is the ball broken away from the shaft?

Is the shaft brass or S/S or something else on your one?

Just trying to work out what has failed.

The handle breaks away with a bit of shaft attached, leaving the ball in the open position.

I wish I’d keep the original failed one, and I am loathe to touch the other failed one because the first one is now weeping steadily out the bit where the shaft came out.

Aaargh! Really NOT feeling very happy about that particular retailer. I will let them know.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Better work fast, Feb.'s here.

Good luck with it, Matt.

Ann

Ouch!

I’m paid through to the 17th, I am determined to leave by then.

[NevilleCat]

Originally Posted by GILow

The handle breaks away with a bit of shaft attached, leaving the ball in the open position.

I wish I’d keep the original failed one, and I am loathe to touch the other failed one because the first one is now weeping steadily out the bit where the shaft came out.

Aaargh! Really NOT feeling very happy about that particular retailer. I will let them know.

Brass shaft or S/S?

[GILow]

Originally Posted by NevilleCat

Brass shaft or S/S?

I wish.

I think the piece of sh-t is actually steel.

[NevilleCat]

Doubtful, even the one in their online picture has a brass shaft. Or at least a brass coloured shaft! I'm going to have a decent look at their current one tomorrow and maybe I will put a magnet over it too!
Maybe the brass shaft de-zinced? What would that look like? Coppery I guess.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by NevilleCat

Doubtful, even the one in their online picture has a brass shaft. Or at least a brass coloured shaft! I'm going to have a decent look at their current one tomorrow and maybe I will put a magnet over it too!
Maybe the brass shaft de-zinced? What would that look like? Coppery I guess.

If it’s brass then you found the problem. The best ones like a flanged seacock from Groco are bronze with a stainless steel ball and shaft. To save money, the valves that go on top of their flanged adapter have a chromed brass ball but a stainless steel shaft and handle. These are very easy to replace so can be a little cheaper.

Replacing a valve on a fitting that is installed European style is tricky as well because the force required to turn the valve may well turn the skin fitting and cause it to leak or even break off. The only thing that prevents it from turning is the sealant. A flanged adapter is bolted down and putting force on the valve does not load the skin fitting at all.