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Old 12-01-2013, 11:13   #1
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Replacing Rubrail

I just purchased a Heritage West Indies 38. The rub rail was removed and needs to be replaced. I am going to wire wheel the old silicone off around the cap. What would be best to seal the cap before installing the new rub rail and also what recommendations on how to affix the rub rail? I look forward to any suggestions.
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Old 12-01-2013, 11:35   #2
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Re: Replacing Rubrail

You don't want to use a wire wheel on the boat, especially a carbon steel one. There is a remover for 3M marine sealers, if that's what it is. Silicon should never be used on boats.

Do you have some pictures? that will tell us what we have to work with. How was the old rail held on?

BTW welcome aboard!
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Old 12-01-2013, 12:13   #3
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Originally Posted by delmarrey View Post
You don't want to use a wire wheel on the boat, especially a carbon steel one. There is a remover for 3M marine sealers, if that's what it is. Silicon should never be used on boats.

Do you have some pictures? that will tell us what we have to work with. How was the old rail held on?

BTW welcome aboard!
I was thinking a wire wheel because that what the boat yard in Ft Pierce suggested. I don't have any pictures of the cap but am heading to Ft Pierce on Thursday to remove the mast and put her on a low boy for transport to MS. Then I have 2 weeks to begin working on her before going back offshore. I will post dome pics on Thursday. Thanks
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Old 12-01-2013, 12:52   #4
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Re: Replacing Rubrail

Cap'nMullet... Where in MS??? I'm up North by Pickwick....
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Old 12-01-2013, 12:57   #5
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Re: Replacing Rubrail

I'll wait for pictures fist before I'd recommending anything w/o a detailed description.
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Old 12-01-2013, 14:17   #6
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Re: Replacing Rubrail

Ferrous wire wheel brushes leave tiny bits of steel behind. That makes an unholy rusty mess as soon as saltwater hits it.

Scrape off the sillycone as best you can then sand with fine sandpaper till your sure the last trace of it is gone. Nothing will stick to sillycone so you'll never get rid of the the leaks without removing the sillycone completely. There is stuff called Debond, IIRC, that softens 5200. Might try that to remove the rail completely
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Old 12-01-2013, 14:29   #7
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Re: Replacing Rubrail

What is the "cap'? By "rub rail" do you mean the bulwark cap? Or is it a true rub rail separate from the bulwark and you are using a wire wheel to remove goo from the stainless or bronze rub strip? If it's off the boat, and that's what it is, I see no problem with a wire wheel.
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Old 12-01-2013, 15:16   #8
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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
What is the "cap'? By "rub rail" do you mean the bulwark cap? Or is it a true rub rail separate from the bulwark and you are using a wire wheel to remove goo from the stainless or bronze rub strip? If it's off the boat, and that's what it is, I see no problem with a wire wheel.
It's a bulwark cap. Where the hull and deck meet. There is no rub rail whatsoever on the vessel. But where she is sealed it looks like silicone and not 5200. I just want to make sure I have it completely clean before sealing with 5200.

It's an older boat 1977 so who knows what's been used over the years. Lots of work to be done, but I want to replace the rail, redo the plumbing and a bottom job and new wiring and spreader lights on the mast before she goes in the water in Gulfport, Mississippi.

I'm sure I will be asking lots of questions along the way.
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Old 12-01-2013, 15:26   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
What is the "cap'? By "rub rail" do you mean the bulwark cap? Or is it a true rub rail separate from the bulwark and you are using a wire wheel to remove goo from the stainless or bronze rub strip? If it's off the boat, and that's what it is, I see no problem with a wire wheel.


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Here is a picture of the boat at the yard before I had her hauled. I will post a better pic next week and continue to get y'alls suggestions. Thanks
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Old 12-01-2013, 16:04   #10
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Re: Replacing Rubrail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captainmullet View Post
It's a bulwark cap. Where the hull and deck meet. There is no rub rail whatsoever on the vessel. But where she is sealed it looks like silicone and not 5200. I just want to make sure I have it completely clean before sealing with 5200.

It's an older boat 1977 so who knows what's been used over the years. Lots of work to be done, but I want to replace the rail, redo the plumbing and a bottom job and new wiring and spreader lights on the mast before she goes in the water in Gulfport, Mississippi.

I'm sure I will be asking lots of questions along the way.
It's called a toe-rail if it seals the joint. Rub-rails are for bumping up against docks or ???

If it's the original sealer it will not be silicone. You can tell silicone by it texture, soft and stretchy. Marine sealer is more solid and is hard to remove compared to silicone.
You don't want to use 5200 unless your bonding stuff together, like keels or bulkheads. 3M-4000 UV would be for deck fasteners and thru-hull fittings.

Get the Debond and remove the left over then reseal with the 4000.

When you pull the rail it would be best if you can find a source for new stuff first. Can-o-worms syndrome! Chances are the old rail is corroded underneath and the fasteners will be shot too. Getting the old fasteners out will be a bitch!
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Old 12-01-2013, 16:27   #11
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Originally Posted by delmarrey View Post

It's called a toe-rail if it seals the joint. Rub-rails are for bumping up against docks or ???

If it's the original sealer it will not be silicone. You can tell silicone by it texture, soft and stretchy. Marine sealer is more solid and is hard to remove compared to silicone.
You don't want to use 5200 unless your bonding stuff together, like keels or bulkheads. 3M-4000 UV would be for deck fasteners and thru-hull fittings.

Get the Debond and remove the left over then reseal with the 4000.

When you pull the rail it would be best if you can find a source for new stuff first. Can-o-worms syndrome! Chances are the old rail is corroded underneath and the fasteners will be shot too. Getting the old fasteners out will be a bitch!
Thanks,
I thought the toe-rail was on top of the deck at the outer edge of the deck. Heck I don't know. I do know it joins the hull and deck just below the windows. I'm a tugboat captain that's been out of sailing for a while. So my terminology is probably going to be a little off.

I will post some close ups so you can see what I'm trying to explain. Thanks again and I look forward to hearing from you.
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Old 12-01-2013, 16:38   #12
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Re: Replacing Rubrail

Some rub-rails do seal the hull/deck joint but they are covered with a rubber strip, which cover the screws/rivots depending on the boat mfgr.

Yours appears to be on top of the joint which may indicate a flange joint but don't know for sure. Here are some samples. Yours seems to be similar to a rail cap.

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Old 12-01-2013, 17:04   #13
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Re: Replacing Rubrail

BTW here's some more examples.

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Old 12-01-2013, 18:50   #14
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Re: Replacing Rubrail

Debond "marine Formula" works well to remove 3M 5200 and other type of polyurethane adhesives/sealants. If it really is silicone, you might try "McKanica". I never tried it myself but I heard it works. If it looks like rubber, it may be polysulfide. Debond sort of works on polysulfide, but not very well.

For mechanical tools, I'd start with a razor knife and a sharp spackling blade. Depending on access, you can try sandpaper to remove the last bits. There are scraper attachments for oscillating tools made by Bosch and others. I would only use a wire wheel as a last alternative, because the risk of collateral damage is high. If you do, find a brass wheel--it's softer and wires won't rust.
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Old 13-01-2013, 05:37   #15
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Thank you Ziggy,
It looks like they used some type of adhesive on the top to hold down what ever was there but perhaps silicone at the joint for leaks. Not sure. I will give it a thorough inspection once I get her home.
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