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Old 25-09-2014, 10:49   #1
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Planning the KISS Boat

Hello everyone, new user here. I'll skip the introductions (check out my intro post in the meets and greets sub-forum if you like) and get right to the point.

In a few years time, I plan to be living aboard my own boat (single-handed), cruising the Caribbean full time, with occasional jaunts across the pond. For this, I feel that a steel full-keel monohull in the ~35' range would best meet my needs. The plan is to buy an old one and do a complete refit from bare metal. That's bound to be contentious, but I don't want to debate that just yet. What I'd like to discuss are systems (the issues concerning which are mostly the same regardless of the type of boat). As my username suggests, I'm into simplicity.

I've spent years reading and thinking about the pros and cons of different arrangements, much of it as a lurker on this wonderful forum. Now I have a fairly detailed plan that I'd like to submit for your consideration.

It's too long to post in text, so I'm posting it in several attachments by topic.

Thanks in advance for any and all constructive feedback,
KISS
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Navigation Systems.pdf (29.3 KB, 221 views)
File Type: pdf Anchoring Systems.pdf (33.5 KB, 169 views)
File Type: pdf Collision Avoidance Systems.pdf (33.7 KB, 126 views)
File Type: pdf Communication Systems.pdf (27.4 KB, 113 views)
File Type: pdf Galley Gear.pdf (27.4 KB, 162 views)
File Type: pdf Plumbing Systems.pdf (37.3 KB, 137 views)
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Old 25-09-2014, 10:51   #2
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Re: Planning the KISS Boat

And there's more...
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Emergency Gear.pdf (36.4 KB, 83 views)
File Type: pdf Interior.pdf (28.8 KB, 99 views)
File Type: pdf Water Consumption and Production.pdf (35.2 KB, 95 views)
File Type: pdf Electricity Consumption.pdf (24.2 KB, 81 views)
File Type: pdf Energy Production and Storage.pdf (44.3 KB, 93 views)
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Old 25-09-2014, 11:01   #3
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Re: Planning the KISS Boat

I'm five years into your plan. I bought a full keel 50 ft steel Ketch designed by Roberts. I cut out everything down to bare steel, blasted it inside and out started from there.
Its not a project for everybody, but its exactly what I wanted to do. Dont get in a hurry, be a stickler for details and as you are building , ask your self "how will I get at this to repair it". And have fun. Building it is half the adventure.
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Old 25-09-2014, 11:31   #4
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Re: Planning the KISS Boat

I opened your anchor PDF. 88 lb anchor on a 35 ft boat is WAY too big. 700 ft of rode ... like wise.
You might get better response here by putting each of your lists in the body of your message. Probably separate posts for each area in question.
Maybe not... they're easy to open I guess... hard to figure what to respond to...!
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Old 25-09-2014, 13:01   #5
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Re: Planning the KISS Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
I opened your anchor PDF. 88 lb anchor on a 35 ft boat is WAY too big. 700 ft of rode ... like wise.
I realize that this is way excessive by the normal standards, bu in the cruising I envision for myself, I'll be anchoring out all the time. This means I'll have to be able to anchor in very deep water and/or very bad weather.

As for the anchor, my feeling is: get the biggest you can safely handle (why not? other than cost?). I tested myself (attached weights to a bench press bar and ran up and down the stairs...) and I found that 90lbs or so was about the max I could do safely. I had already decided on a Rocna, so Rocna #88 it was.

As for the the rode, the more the better - the only disadvantage (other than cost) is weight. First, I didn't want too much weight in the bow. I'm not a naval architect (nor do I even have a specific boat yet!) but I guesstimated from comparing other people's boats that the weight of 200' of 1/4" G70 was about the max I'd want out front: which works nicely since that's about what I would expect to use on a day to day basis (allows nearly 7:1 in 30' which seems to be at the higher end of average anchor depth in the Caribbean). So that meant I had to put the rest elsewhere, but agains I didn't think I could safely handle more than about 90lbs on a rolling deck. So, that meant I had to cut it into sections. With 1/4" G70, a 115' section weighs #90. For ease of math (both now and when meting out rode on the boat), I rounded down to 100'. How many sections? Well, there's no scientific reasoning here, but I thought 100' was a good estimate of the deepest water I'd ever have to anchor in. And for a 7:1 scope (which is what I would always try to do) that means 700' - or 5 x 100' sections stored belowdecks in addition to the 200' kept permanently in the bow locker.

Most systems aboard my imaginary boat are minimalist, but the ground tackle is...maximalist.
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Old 25-09-2014, 13:15   #6
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Re: Planning the KISS Boat

I'll take a peak at some other stuff but to pick on the current topic....
That's 88 pounds PLUS the weight of the chain.

Here's the book you want, if you don't already have it.


Here's a likely boat.
Ted Brewer Yacht Design

There is usually one on yachtworld. Pape Ebbtide would also work.
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Old 25-09-2014, 13:17   #7
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Re: Planning the KISS Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt sachs View Post
I'm five years into your plan. I bought a full keel 50 ft steel Ketch designed by Roberts. I cut out everything down to bare steel, blasted it inside and out started from there. Its not a project for everybody, but its exactly what I wanted to do. Dont get in a hurry, be a stickler for details and as you are building , ask your self "how will I get at this to repair it". And have fun. Building it is half the adventure.
Awesome!

How far along are you?

And did you blast it yourself? I've been going back and forth on this one. On the one hand, I'd save a lot of money, on the other hand....I would prefer not to die from silicosis and/or lead poisoning.
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Old 25-09-2014, 13:20   #8
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Re: Planning the KISS Boat

paper maps (Imray)
• kept at navigation station
GPS for coordinates only (displayed on mounted VHF with built in GPS) • kept at navigation station
Compass
• kept at navigation station
depth finder, through hull, standalone display • kept at navigation station
SSB receiver plugged into tablet with decoding software for weatherfax reports globally • kept at navigation station

No, you need your nav stuff where you can see it. It can be inside but must be visible. Compass can be simple hockey puck, but you use it to steer more than you think.

You WILL need a chart plotter, going into new harbors at night is stressful.
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Old 25-09-2014, 13:23   #9
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Re: Planning the KISS Boat

You need a proper cooker. Simple is a kero two jobs and an oven. In settled weather you can out a pressure cooker on top. You can cook bread in any weather almost.

Really, this is important. You need to eat and eating takes a lot of thought and energy.
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Old 25-09-2014, 13:26   #10
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Re: Planning the KISS Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
I'll take a peak at some other stuff but to pick on the current topic....That's 88 pounds PLUS the weight of the chain.
200' of 1/4" G70 = 154lbs (remember, the other 500' is not going to be at the bow)
+ 88lbs anchor = 242lbs

IIRC, the norm for a boat in the 35' range is 3/8 G43, which weighs 1.49lbs/foot. From what I read, most cruisers use all chain rode, and have at least 200'. 200' of 3/8 G43 weighs 298 (more than my chain and anchor combined). Am I way off base here?

Quote:
Here's the book you want, if you don't already have it.

Here's a likely boat.
Ted Brewer Yacht Design

There is usually one on yachtworld. Pape Ebbtide would also work.
I'll add it to the list (...there a lot of books on my list).

So far I've trying been trying to get by mostly on free information.
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Old 25-09-2014, 13:55   #11
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Re: Planning the KISS Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by KISS View Post
I realize that this is way excessive by the normal standards, bu in the cruising I envision for myself, I'll be anchoring out all the time. <SNIP>
My 2 cents:

Whether or not something is excessive by any sort of standard, keep in mind that most of the posters here have experience that goes a fair amount above the norm. It's your life, spend it how you want but keep in mind that many people you meet who offer advice may have learned it by scaring the crap out of themselves back in the day...

Personally, I do not think I have ever had to deal with an anchor over 35 lbs (then again I am inshore) but I can tell you I had to deal with an anchor once when I was seasick and 35 lbs is big enough then! Anyway, good on you for deciding how to live your life but my advice is to keep an open mind when communicating with others who are doing things that you wish to accomplish in life.

Regards,


Mark
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Old 25-09-2014, 14:17   #12
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Re: Planning the KISS Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
You need a proper cooker. Simple is a kero two jobs and an oven. In settled weather you can out a pressure cooker on top. You can cook bread in any weather almost.

Really, this is important. You need to eat and eating takes a lot of thought and energy.
Are you saying that a multi-fuel camp stove is inadequate because I need more burner (and an oven), or is it something else (stability?).
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Old 25-09-2014, 14:19   #13
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Re: Planning the KISS Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by KISS View Post
Awesome!

How far along are you?

And did you blast it yourself? I've been going back and forth on this one. On the one hand, I'd save a lot of money, on the other hand....I would prefer not to die from silicosis and/or lead poisoning.
Yes I blasted my self. I used a full body suit, compressed air cooling and breathing. I have a V8 compressor, that is now for sale. and a borrowed 750 pound clements blast hopper. Its a major PITA. but looking back it was a blast. LOL

The interrior is mostly complete. Its walnut and oak with some maple and purple heart. I put in Hydraulic steering back in the spring, but not much of the other mechanical is done yet. The deck and wheel house are faired and primered, the hull is primered, but still have some fairing to do. I added a bow sprit and two port lights. Ive put in a purasan and a Marine Elegance along with 4 fuel tanks. ......so much to do and a daughter due this week......
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Old 25-09-2014, 14:19   #14
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Re: Planning the KISS Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by MBWhite View Post
My 2 cents:

Whether or not something is excessive by any sort of standard, keep in mind that most of the posters here have experience that goes a fair amount above the norm. It's your life, spend it how you want but keep in mind that many people you meet who offer advice may have learned it by scaring the crap out of themselves back in the day...

Personally, I do not think I have ever had to deal with an anchor over 35 lbs (then again I am inshore) but I can tell you I had to deal with an anchor once when I was seasick and 35 lbs is big enough then! Anyway, good on you for deciding how to live your life but my advice is to keep an open mind when communicating with others who are doing things that you wish to accomplish in life.

Regards,


Mark
Thanks Mark.

I suppose there's no way to generalize about this, as everybody's different. The 6' 250lbs guy can handle a bigger anchor than the 5' 120lbs guy, etc. I've tested this as best I can ashore. Before I go spend the big bucks on such a large anchor, though, I promise I will test it out on an actual boat being hit by actual waves. If you see a guy running around his boat with a huge barbel making an ass of himself, that will be me.
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Old 25-09-2014, 14:20   #15
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Re: Planning the KISS Boat

Kiss,
I'm an anchor freak. I can drag any where at any time with any anchor.

My 33' with manual windlass Has a 40 lb Rocna. Our 44' with a big electric windlass has a 66 lb spade and a 125 lb Mantus.

Evans Starzinger has about 100 lbs on his 47' aluminum sloop.

If I think it's too big, it's too big.
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