Offshore Sailor Needs Advice

[twisty]

All I can say is please don't close it, it is a good thread for someone like me just starting out. You have no idea how much I learned from this thread. It gives you the opportunity to see what others would have done given the same situation but with more experience, what you shouldn't do and asking questions. I have a few thanks to this thread, most I have googled so far but I know I have a couple that relate highly to this thread and I plan on posting here.

The first being what is the difference between a drogue and a sea anchor? And how would either/or have helped Ronnie? I thought they were the same thing but from what i read here I am now not so sure.

[Colorado Dreamer]

Originally Posted by twisty

The first being what is the difference between a drogue and a sea anchor? And how would either/or have helped Ronnie? I thought they were the same thing but from what i read here I am now not so sure.

See, another tangent.

Closing the thread does not erase it. You can still read it, you just can not post to it. If something you read sparks a question, you can always start a new thread.

This thread has gone all over the place, and if it stuck to topic, it would have been a great thread...but I suspect that now, with the length and tangents, very few people would actually read the whole thing and thus learn anything.

Kudos to you for jumping in from the start. Most of us posting here have been following the action from the start. ;o)

[RTB]

Originally Posted by Colorado Dreamer

See, another tangent.

Closing the thread does not erase it. You can still read it, you just can not post to it. If something you read sparks a question, you can always start a new thread.

This thread has gone all over the place, and if it stuck to topic, it would have been a great thread...but I suspect that now, with the length and tangents, very few people would actually read the whole thing and thus learn anything.

Kudos to you for jumping in from the start. Most of us posting here have been following the action from the start. ;o)

Hey Colorado Dreamer,

You are right. Now that I see your point, who can add to it? Just don't delete it. I totally agree, maybe the tech admin guy would consider closing it.

Ralph

[RTB]

By the way, just so everyone knows, this topic is what brought me here in the first place. I had no idea Cruisers Forum existed until the day it was posted on Ronnie's website. There were guys here trying to help my friend, and others saying what an idiot he was. It was all true, and I have learned much from this thread!

Ralph

[Celestialsailor]

When I was young and learning or at least trying to. I always had an opinion on something I knew little about. Once a person my senior said to me..."You have 2 ears and 1 mouth...play the odds". If you want to learn about boating and truly love the forum, it might be best to listen.

[TaoJones]

Originally Posted by twisty

<snip>
The first being what is the difference between a drogue and a sea anchor? And how would either/or have helped Ronnie? I thought they were the same thing but from what i read here I am now not so sure.

I'll take a stab at your question, my new friend twisty.

A sea anchor is launched from the bow of the vessel and simulates at sea what regular ground tackle does in an anchorage, only it does it in the middle of the ocean. That is, it arrests the vessel's motion (or a great deal of it, anyway) and allows the vessel to lie head-to-weather. This can make for relative peace and quiet in the midst of a gale when a sailor might desperately need to get some sleep or put some hot food in his belly, or both.

A drogue is designed to slow a vessel's speed through the water when it comes close to surfing out-of-control. That is, when the vessel is carrying so much speed in spite of vastly reducing sail area, or even running under bare poles, that it runs the risk of surfing down the face of a steep wave, burying the bow and pitchpoling, it's time to step on the brakes!

Oops, no brakes on a boat! Time to drag as much junk as it takes to retard the vessel's speed through the water. Sailors have used any number of creative items - line, tires, you-name-it - but the simplest, IMO, is to deploy a drogue such as the Jordan Series Drogue.

Hope that helps.

TaoJones

[twisty]

Originally Posted by TaoJones

I'll take a stab at your question, my new friend twisty.

A sea anchor is launched from the bow of the vessel and simulates at sea what regular ground tackle does in an anchorage, only it does it in the middle of the ocean. That is, it arrests the vessel's motion (or a great deal of it, anyway) and allows the vessel to lie head-to-weather. This can make for relative peace and quiet in the midst of a gale when a sailor might desperately need to get some sleep or put some hot food in his belly, or both.

A drogue is designed to slow a vessel's speed through the water when it comes close to surfing out-of-control. That is, when the vessel is carrying so much speed in spite of vastly reducing sail area, or even running under bare poles, that it runs the risk of surfing down the face of a steep wave, burying the bow and pitchpoling, it's time to step on the brakes!

Oops, no brakes on a boat! Time to drag as much junk as it takes to retard the vessel's speed through the water. Sailors have used any number of creative items - line, tires, you-name-it - but the simplest, IMO, is to deploy a drogue such as the Jordan Series Drogue.

Hope that helps.

TaoJones

See now I get it. In the simplest terms. A drogue creates drag. A sea anchor gives you time to think, rest, eat..etc while keeping you pointed in the safe direction. Same basic idea as if I were to get in trouble in the inlet with a power boat, drop the anchor, which will point you in the safe direction, and reorganize.


How does either fair when the wind is opposing the current?

[Wotname]

Just a quick addition to sea anchor info. Often deployed DIRECTLY off the bow in cats and power vessels.

Yachts can also deploy off the forward quarter (using a bridle) to hold the boat about 50 degrees off the wind while hove to to prevent fore reaching. See the Pardey's book on Storm Tactics or other threads about this on CF.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by twisty

See now I get it. In the simplest terms. A drogue creates drag. A sea anchor gives you time to think, rest, eat..etc while keeping you pointed in the safe direction. Same basic idea as if I were to get in trouble in the inlet with a power boat, drop the anchor, which will point you in the safe direction, and reorganize.


How does either fair when the wind is opposing the current?

Twisty,

Go here.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...hor-22705.html

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...gue-10153.html

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ment-7806.html

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ting-7845.html

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ors-20547.html

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ics-996-5.html

[Hud3]

One of the great things about this forum is the wealth of information in our archives. The fact that Twisty found this thread, read it from start to finish, and got a lot out of the discussion is a good thing. Veering off into totally unrelated topics isn't so good. We like to keep the discussions generally on-topic so that someone doing exactly what Twisty did won't have to wade through a lot of unrelated stuff to get to the essence of the thread. Staying on topic makes using the Search function to find specific information a lot more useful, too.

So, if you want to talk about drogues and sea anchors, please post in one of the existing threads that Therapy has so helpfully referenced, or start a new one. It's really easy to start a new thread on any given boating-related topic.

[BlueWaterSail]

Originally Posted by Hud3

Veering off into totally unrelated topics isn't so good.

With all due respect, I think Twisty added a great deal of depth to this discussion, and the question regarding use of sea anchors etc. would appear quite logical given the original topic of the thread - heavy weather, no steering, what to do, etc, etc.

BWS

[Hud3]

No argument about Twisty's contribution. My post was based on my view that a discussion of the relative merits of drogue vs. 'chute was a topic unto itself, and more appropriate in a new thread or one of the existing threads on the topic.

This thread was initially an appeal for help for Ronnie, who was having mechanical problems on his boat.

[twisty]

Originally Posted by BlueWaterSail

With all due respect, I think Twisty added a great deal of depth to this discussion, and the question regarding use of sea anchors etc. would appear quite logical given the original topic of the thread - heavy weather, no steering, what to do, etc, etc.

BWS

Which is exactly what I was trying to get back to. But no one really answered my question about how either could have been used in this situation ad it seemed stupid to make another thread that was title as something like How could a drogue or sea anchor helped that guy in that other thread.

From shrimping I know that if you shorten one of the lines attached to the doors and net and not the other, you turn. So though I have never tried it, it would seem that in this case a sea anchor re roped in the proper way would have given a very crude method of steering.

Hud I may take a while to get there but rest assured I am always trying to get to one point, I just go the long way around sometimes.

[Hud3]

No problem, Twisty. I obviously misunderstood your intent in that particular train of thought. Have at it!

[BlueWaterSail]

Originally Posted by twisty

From shrimping I know that if you shorten one of the lines attached to the doors and net and not the other, you turn. So though I have never tried it, it would seem that in this case a sea anchor re roped in the proper way would have given a very crude method of steering.

A sea anchor could not be rigged to steer the boat since it is deployed off the bow. As has been mentioned, it could be set up to point the bow at an angle to the waves, but that's about it.

A drogue rigged from the stern via a bridle might appear to offer some steering capability, though the problem is how to adjust the tension in the lines, and - as I remember in Ronnie's case - the fact that the rudder was not straight when it broke. This would keep turning the boat back abeam, which was the problem in the first place.

BWS