Nauticat 52 Refit

[jgbrown]

Originally Posted by minaret

That pleases me. I'm trying to give more info, but it's difficult when no one else is posting. I don't know if I'm being too technical and it's going over people's heads, or too simple. I try but I'm not a good photographer and my viewpoint is probably totally skewed by spending the last couple decades living in boatyards and construction facilities. I'm always surprised that this thread has already hit almost 20k views, but very few people post here. Perhaps when I start posting pics of some of the later cosmetic work people will have more questions about what I'm doing. I'll get around to it soon, it's going well.

Hope any info you may have gleaned from me has worked out well for you, and always feel free to ask away if you have any questions. Thanks for posting!

I've been kicking myself every time I read this thread for not following up when you posted ages ago offering to let someone learn in exchange for working for you.

Part of it is that it is hard to find an entry point to start a discussion, at least for me, because your posts tend to be brief and complete, not a step by step in the kind of broken down to basics detail I'd be comfortable asking lots of questions about.

Doesn't mean I don't enjoy the reading though. I find it fascinating.

Do you use a lot of pex? We mostly use the sealand fittings exclusively unless the system is already pex and we're just adding a small bit. then we use the standard stainless collars and fittings, no spreader required.
What is the benefit of the spreader based approach?

I prefer the dewalt 12v impact and drill over all others for about 8 reasons.

Frustrating that m12 lineup can't compare there, as I use those two all the time.
Don't want 2 12v systems, and would prefer paired 12v and 18v with single charger. (dewalt shares a single charger and can even run on dc input).
If they'd fix that, the led lighting, ergonomics and the service issues(dewalt has service center right here in town) I've switch in a heartbeat.

[sharpey]

Also been reading the updates here...

Most interested by the soggy deck work you're doing. I'll need to see how to tackle the issue we've got... rotten deck core (I think ply, perhaps balsa), it's black and pulpy! ahead of the baby stay (which is glassed in soldily) over the vberth. We'll be doing it next year (need to do some sailing first!).

I assume you take the core samples to find out how far the rot extends? Will you be trying to save & re-use the upper skin of the deck when you replace the core?

Cheers,

James

[DSDman]

I grudgingly read it every day. It ends up pissing me off because I then realize how juvenile my feable attempts are and it makes my type A and perfectionist leaning brain feel less than....Adam and End didn't know they were naked until they ate the apple. Well I keep eating the apple and I'm not naked anymore but compared to what you do, I'm very poorly dressed...

[minaret]

[QUOTE=Richard5;1220527]

Originally Posted by minaret

Iphones will prove to be the bain of human existence.
From nearly illegible writing/editing features to crappy pictures and terrible microphones, the race to the bottom has technological help.



I *thought* the holes in the deck were simply to plug the previous screw holes. If you are using those holes for the bleeder I now understand.

To some perhaps the results of this thread are opposite of what you intend. I look at it this way, you are trying to bring them up, to increase their knowledge base, at least to dissuade them of the fear of working with glass. You dispense your professional knowledge which is oft times all you can hope to achieve.

Perhaps the lack of questions from your audience is due to perception in them that what you provide will come on handy at a later date but not now. Hence, there will be questions later but not know. Such is the way of internet forums. Still, do not be dissuaded.

Ah, I see. No, the original screw holes in the deck are filled, otherwise you would suck air under the core. Think of it this way, the core itself is fairly static. All the pressure is trying to make the bag come in contact with the core, but the bleeder prevents this, maintaining an area of negative pressure between the core and bag. So it's trying to pull the bag down, not lift the core up. If, for instance, you ran your butyl tape on the edge of the deck core instead of on the boat, then what you are describing would occur. Except in that case the vacuum is powerful enough that it would very quickly break the core.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Richard5

Looking at the portholes it looks like jagged cutouts. Sure, the whole shebang will be covered but a smooth opening (rotozip) would be more shipshape. Do builders rely on great masses of caulking to "make it right"?

Often. Check out these factory silicone fills. They look like eyeballs!

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

+1

Thanks Unka Bob! Love those Fisher's...

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Andrew Troup

I'm still following avidly, Minaret.

I don't pipe up much, because I don't work in composites and because I'm trying to put in some hours on breaking the back of the design work for my own boat project, but it's always worth staying abreast of best practice in any field.

I say that partly out of sheer interest, and partly because great ideas and great procedures help to seed other great ideas & procedures, even in seemingly unrelated fields.

Good to see you here Andrew. Too true. Plus you can't have too many tools in your mental toolbox.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by jgbrown

I've been kicking myself every time I read this thread for not following up when you posted ages ago offering to let someone learn in exchange for working for you.

Part of it is that it is hard to find an entry point to start a discussion, at least for me, because your posts tend to be brief and complete, not a step by step in the kind of broken down to basics detail I'd be comfortable asking lots of questions about.

Doesn't mean I don't enjoy the reading though. I find it fascinating.

Do you use a lot of pex? We mostly use the sealand fittings exclusively unless the system is already pex and we're just adding a small bit. then we use the standard stainless collars and fittings, no spreader required.
What is the benefit of the spreader based approach?

I prefer the dewalt 12v impact and drill over all others for about 8 reasons.

Frustrating that m12 lineup can't compare there, as I use those two all the time.
Don't want 2 12v systems, and would prefer paired 12v and 18v with single charger. (dewalt shares a single charger and can even run on dc input).
If they'd fix that, the led lighting, ergonomics and the service issues(dewalt has service center right here in town) I've switch in a heartbeat.

Would you kick yourself more if I told you I'm paying my helpers well too?


Pex is awesome stuff, Wirsbo tubing only for us. The Uponor fittings are like magic, amazing stuff. Did you watch the vid I posted a few pages back? Sorry, Youtube links don't always post right by iPad. It's just a link. The M12 pex a expander makes it easy to plumb a boat in no time. The Uponor expander is just too damn big, manual expanders are even worse, as you often need to make the joint in a tight spot. The manual expander is so big it becomes a two man job, because you only have a few seconds to make the join before the pex relaxes. One guy expands, then quickly hands the fitting to the guy in the cabinet. PITA. The M12 will fit just about anywhere with you, and the right angle head makes it easy to expand fittings in some deep holes. Wirsbo and Uponor require you to be a pro, no warranty for DIYers. No pex e, only pex a for Uponor fittings. Stick to Wirsbo.


I recently tossed my DeWalt. Too big, both batteries permanently dead after only two years of use. Never again. Milwaukee red lithium batteries run longer than any other system I have used. And their tools are bombproof. You get what you pay for, but we all have our preferences. Thanks for posting!

[minaret]

Originally Posted by sharpey

Also been reading the updates here...

Most interested by the soggy deck work you're doing. I'll need to see how to tackle the issue we've got... rotten deck core (I think ply, perhaps balsa), it's black and pulpy! ahead of the baby stay (which is glassed in soldily) over the vberth. We'll be doing it next year (need to do some sailing first!).

I assume you take the core samples to find out how far the rot extends? Will you be trying to save & re-use the upper skin of the deck when you replace the core?

Cheers,

James

No soggy deck on this boat, though I may have posted some pics of other deck jobs. When you need advice, feel free to ask away. Extent of rot is usually determined by a combination of hammer sounding, moisture meter, and core samples. Whether you reuse the upper skin or not can be determined by a number of factors. Thanks for posting!

[minaret]

Originally Posted by DSDman

I grudgingly read it every day. It ends up pissing me off because I then realize how juvenile my feable attempts are and it makes my type A and perfectionist leaning brain feel less than....Adam and End didn't know they were naked until they ate the apple. Well I keep eating the apple and I'm not naked anymore but compared to what you do, I'm very poorly dressed...

Lol! Don't worry DSD, your fig leaf is covering you just fine!

[Exile]

Originally Posted by minaret

Lol! I know you are a devoted fan of the project, Exile!


Keep the helmet off, maybe some of the info will penetrate!

Yeah, but once the helmet is off, the info may still have trouble penetrating my rather thick skull!

In actual fact, much has penetrated & much has been learned. Once I put some of these concepts into practice, however, the question will be whether I've managed to become better educated!

A good examle, btw, was your recent exchange with the guy trying to figure out for the first time the best way to prepare the bottom of his boat for new paint. He took all of your suggestions to heart, but only "got it" after learning how to use the big grinder on the job.

I think sharing your knowledge via this thread benefits DIY'ers at all different skill levels, and thereby encourages more boaters to stay in the game. This benefits the entire industry, esp. in difficult economic times.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Exile

Yeah, but once the helmet is off, the info may still have trouble penetrating my rather thick skull!

In actual fact, much has penetrated & much has been learned. Once I put some of these concepts into practice, however, the question will be whether I've managed to become better educated!

A good examle, btw, was your recent exchange with the guy trying to figure out for the first time the best way to prepare the bottom of his boat for new paint. He took all of your suggestions to heart, but only "got it" after learning how to use the big grinder on the job.

I think sharing your knowledge via this thread benefits DIY'ers at all different skill levels, and thereby encourages more boaters to stay in the game. This benefits the entire industry, esp. in difficult economic times.

Why, thank you. Exactly what I'm shooting for. I see way too many boats sitting on the dock neglected these days, and often the owner will tell you it's because they can't afford the yard bills. It's difficult, but there are often ways to save a lot of money when it comes to boat work. You just need the information on how to do it. This Internet thingy is pretty good at disseminating info.

[Panope]

I have very little need to do composite work but I have been following along with great interest anyway. Always fascinating to learn how stuff goes together - correctly. Clearly, this work is of the highest standard.

Minaret, could you possibly give us a rough estimate of what this project would cost if it were a customer boat paying your normal shop rate? I know this may be personal information that you may not wish to share - so no problem if you do not wish to answer.

Thanks for the very generous thread.

Steve

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Panope

I have very little need to do composite work but I have been following along with great interest anyway. Always fascinating to learn how stuff goes together - correctly. Clearly, this work is of the highest standard.

Minaret, could you possibly give us a rough estimate of what this project would cost if it were a customer boat paying your normal shop rate? I know this may be personal information that you may not wish to share - so no problem if you do not wish to answer.

Thanks for the very generous thread.

Steve

Hard to say. Given the number of hours I've gotten into it, certainly 100k plus, if I figure at the regular shop rate. It's a massive vessel. Everything takes extra time and materials due to sheer square footage. Thanks, I appreciate the compliment from someone who clearly puts out work of the highest standard himself.

[Crayfish]

Minaret,

Thank you very much for letting me have a look over your shoulder. I wish we had boatbuilders around here like you.

Volker