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Old 28-08-2016, 16:27   #16
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Re: Mystery failure of Propane (Cooking Gaz) bottle

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Originally Posted by Dave22q View Post
You are right on two things, the bottoms differ in ways that don't matter and transporting any tank on a bike is not practical. It is sad that an extra 10 or 15 lbs stresses you so much as you take a taxi, beg a ride or walk to the nearest filling station. Whatever the material, propane tanks have to be refilled and that usually means transporting them to a swap or refill location. I repeat that here in the US there are probably 2 or 3 swap locations for every tank refill station. Refill stations will fill a swapped tank but swap stations will not generally accept a fiberglass tank in trade. As for rust, I've seen little significant rust on painted steel tanks after months of deck exposure or years of dock exposure. However, I do set my tank on plastic as the bottom rings do rust and will stain fiberglass.
I will ignore ignorant boasts as to who is 'real' cruiser. It is not a subject that interests me.
OY. Who dumped in your wheaties today?

Lessee:

Propane 20#, can (I'm not at my aluminum can) maybe 8 pounds. A third full and it IS 10-15 pounds. I'm thrilled that biking a folder and cradling or otherwise managing 25 or more bulky pounds, seems like griping to you, as you clearly have better skills than I or most of those I hang with (granted, on an anchor, so somewhat limited in scope, pardon the expression, as to variety or depth). FWIW, most cruisers I know would use a milk crate strapped to the fender to manage it.

Who would trade out a 100+ buck fiberglass tank for a steel clunker? And as to steel, I'm jealous that your environment doesn't turn steel into rust.

"Real" or otherwise, it's not boasting to observe that those not living on a dock, with a vehicle, have different challenges than those who do.

Other than that I'll go back to prepping for our cruise when Invest 99 lets us head out safely
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Old 28-08-2016, 19:35   #17
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Re: Mystery failure of Propane (Cooking Gaz) bottle

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Originally Posted by skipgundlach View Post
One other possibility. New valves have a runaway provision which closes the outlet.

It's possible, if you still have the bullet connector, that has happened. However...

Reset is simple. The manual, right-hand plastic nut variety have a 'nose nipple' protruding from the bullet shape. That 'unlocks' it when you insert it.

Because I have a valve with a wonky o-ring, I don't use the manual type on that connection. I took the manual end off, and put on my knurled, O-ringed POL nose.

I saved that manual end. After refilling, if the filler didn't do it, I have to insert that manual end. When I do, I hear a 'pop' as the valve releases. A short turn of the handle confirms that the valve is open.

On which subject, unless you're using a great flow, about 1/4-1/2 turn is likely the amount of valve opening you need. Greater may allow enough flow to upset the valve, and shut you off.

Yours may not be that case, but for those who just filled their can/fiberglass with the provider, and wonder why they can't get any, or whose tank isn't REALLY empty, that may be the cause and the cure.
Skip, would you have any pictures of the valve or the nose nipple?

I found this website with quite a few diagrams, parts, and definitions (such as POL). http://www.mrheater.com/downloads/dl...guide_2013.pdf
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Old 29-08-2016, 01:24   #18
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Re: Mystery failure of Propane (Cooking Gaz) bottle

Propain . Different choices of containers for various reasons. Pros and cons to all of them.
When i worked for compressed gas business(10 yrs) we were qualified to certify tanks visually and bring into physical certification by date and stamp. If a cylinder was pitted, adios. Cyls were tare weighted and filled. Fiberglas cyls were refused 30 yearsago. 20# cyls were filled to 20#.. Exchanges these days are filled to 15#. Most fillers will fill to 20# on site pick up . Ive had fillers refuse to fill my out of date cyl. Thus ,off to exchange.. Pol was a trademark thing meaning Pretolite brand. Pol fittings fit acetylene applications and vice versa, but not recomded as propane is petrloeum based, acetylene is not. Pol used a threaded male nipple and a nut with male left hand thread for into the valve. Then switched to the new style with oring and large coarse thread on valve. Now with valves having male coars right hand thread and female left hand thread. Connections , needless to say can be a pita. Lol
As to projectile damage to any cyl of any material i wont comment on. That im sure could constitute another thread. As to uv on fibreglass and composite? If they are in enclosed on deck, no issue id suspect. Aluminum and steel will corrode but less likely in enclosed cabinet. In my experince with steel cyls in milk crates in open cockpit in salt conditions , i had no rust issue. My lines were ss braided over rubber high pressure lines,, discarde at work for superficial cosmetic reasons.
The OPs concern was likely the safety valve malefunction as pointed out. Perhaps he may be able to replace a valve himself. The valve has npt thread into the cyl ,common pipe thread. Proper care taken to relieve pressure from tank. The difficulty is in the removal, and replacement w/o damaging the new valve.
Before going that route, be sure to check for dirt in the valve, it may just be that simple, could have gotten there enroute to filler. I assume the PO did check that , but maybe not, idk.
Propane fittings involve can be a pain. With standarde of pol, aw, cga, npt, rv, nsf,,household, and appliance, copper,brass,all manner of hose,compression fittings, its sometimes frustrating getting correct parts.
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Old 29-08-2016, 04:15   #19
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Re: Mystery failure of Propane (Cooking Gaz) bottle

Thruska beat me to it...... the exchange tanks are only filled with 15# of Propane..... Not as good of a deal as many think. Now of course if your valve is bad or cylinder getting near the end of its service date, a swap might have some economic advantage.

Couple other tidbits.... The refill guys will likely turn away a cyl that has the swap guys label on it.. The swap tanks are often painted up real nice, BUT check the service date stamp before you walk away...
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Old 29-08-2016, 05:08   #20
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Re: Mystery failure of Propane (Cooking Gaz) bottle

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Skip, would you have any pictures of the valve or the nose nipple?

I found this website with quite a few diagrams, parts, and definitions (such as POL). http://www.mrheater.com/downloads/dl...guide_2013.pdf
I don't, but that does.

Look at the bottom of page 24, and enlarge the end with the plastic collar.

The brass has a protrusion from the bullet shape of the connectors shown earlier; that's what does the unlocking, and if it's not present in the overflow-protected valves, the safety interlock can activate.

In my case, I was replacing a straight bullet nose, with no O-ring. The inside of the valve, if you look down it, has an O-ring; one of my tanks had a damaged one. So, the bullet POL fitting would not make a perfect seal, and the fitting would leak.

In their glossary, they have a soft nose. That's what my POL fitting has. Early ones are solid. The top of page 12 has something similar to what I have, though they claim over-flow safety, which I don't know how is accomplished. The end of their catalog has a pic of what I have but with a nut rather than knurled fitting. It's screwed directly to my hose.

In any event, the cure, if that is what is happening, is to have one of the noses looking like the one at the top of page 5. I don't remember for sure, but the two I got were not difficult to source, and, when I found out about the damaged O-ring, I put one of them back as a tester and unlocker. Not expensive, of course.

Page 13's second item shows both types, as well as flow rates (btu capability) for the right-hand type.

The valve itself is notable via the triangular handle. In the US it's the only kind you've been able to buy for many years, and most refill places won't fill one that doesn't have it - even if they ignore the inspection rules (12 years, I think, from new on aluminum, and 5 after, and something less for steel and more for fiberglass). If you have that handle, looking into the opening will show you at least one O-ring; there is no way to replace that, or at least my refiller told me so, but had my solution in the form of the O-ringed bullet. I wish mine had a hand wheel; it's only a relatively small knurled grip, and while I have yet to use a wrench on it, it's tough getting it out and back in when I change over.

Was that useful?
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Old 29-08-2016, 08:12   #21
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Re: Mystery failure of Propane (Cooking Gaz) bottle

Thanks, everyone, for the information and suggestions. I have poked, prodded, shook, talked nice to, talked bad to, and done about everything I can to this tank short of destructive disassembly. No joy.

I guess I will find some way to dispose of this unless anybody is in Gibraltar and would like a very nice, rust-free propane tank with an inoperative valve and American fittings.

Thanks again.

Cheers!

Steve
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Old 29-08-2016, 15:48   #22
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Re: Mystery failure of Propane (Cooking Gaz) bottle

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Thanks, everyone, for the information and suggestions. I have poked, prodded, shook, talked nice to, talked bad to, and done about everything I can to this tank short of destructive disassembly. No joy.

I guess I will find some way to dispose of this unless anybody is in Gibraltar and would like a very nice, rust-free propane tank with an inoperative valve and American fittings.

Thanks again.

Cheers!

Steve
As I take the above statement, you have assigned a very near $0 value to the above object. I suggest using the above posters advice about disassembly. To dispose of as trash, you should ensure it is empty. Empty it, disassemble it, learn as you go. If you do not find the point of failure on the way in and fix it on the way out, it is much safer to dispose of. Watch out for the skunk, sometimes there is an amount of liquid in the cylinder that is the "odorant". Non Teflon pipe dope please.
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Old 12-09-2016, 19:33   #23
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Re: Mystery failure of Propane (Cooking Gaz) bottle

We have twin 15 year old 10 lb aluminum tanks. Holden Gas in Peabody MA replaced a leaky valve, recertified for 5 years and refilled one for $65. We had smelled gas in the locker, had the safety valve stick closed twice, and we're very pleased to find this economical service.
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