Deadlight and Interior Paneling Options

[liquidkangaroo]

So I have finally been able to take an inventory of Edisto and have an idea of what needs to be done. My first and foremost priority is going to be sealing her up and making her water tight. As you can see, the previous owner had already taken the liberty of stripping the interior down for me.



The current deadlights (the ones that are still intact) are 1/4" tempered glass. I have ordered 1/2" acrylic to replace them since it is strong and easy to work with. Is this my best option?



Also, does anyone have any recommendations on =interior paneling. I want to avoid wood since there is enough of that topside for me to worry about maintaining. What would be an affordable, durable, good looking paneling option for my interior? Looking forward to your replies.

Cheers!

[Cheechako]

Wood is forgiving to work with and needs little maintenance on the interior. There are some plastic "wainscoting" panels available.... but they are going to look like what they are.
Not sure I'd trade plastic for glass personally.

[liquidkangaroo]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Wood is forgiving to work with and needs little maintenance on the interior. There are some plastic "wainscoting" panels available.... but they are going to look like what they are.
Not sure I'd trade plastic for glass personally.

What are the advantages of keeping tempered glass? My biggest reason in using the acrylic is that it is easier to work with and cut (no need to hire an expensive glass cutter). I am open to options though.

I spoke with a company today -Reforest Teak- that sells 7/16 teak tongue and groove paneling at $150/40sqft so I'm thinking of going that route.

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[Suijin]

It's hard to tell from the photos how big those deadlights are, and how they are installed. Is there an external frame that holds them in?

The one disadvantage of glass is that if it gets whacked with a whipping shackle, or flying snatch block, it can break. Acrylic is more forgiving in that respect but not as durable, ultimately. It's going to scratch and craze over time. If it were me, and I expected to keep the boat for awhile, I would opt for glass, depending on location and exposure.

For the panelling, one option to consider is Formica. It comes in two thicknesses (the thinner version for horizontal and countertops, and the thicker for "vertical" applications). The thicker variant has enough stiffness for cabin sides and coachroof head liners. It comes in lots of colors, is durable, is easy to clean, and easy to work with. Lastly, depending on the color you choose, it can make your interior much lighter looking. A common approach with an interior heavy in wood/teak/cherry is to use formica to give the cabin top surround a Herreshoff look, brightening things up. Up to you if it would look weird with the rest of your interior. One additional benefit is that properly planned, it's easy to take down so that you can work on wiring, deck hardware, etc.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about:

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by liquidkangaroo

What are the advantages of keeping tempered glass? My biggest reason in using the acrylic is that it is easier to work with and cut (no need to hire an expensive glass cutter). I am open to options though.

I spoke with a company today -Reforest Teak- that sells 7/16 teak tongue and groove paneling at $150/40sqft so I'm thinking of going that route.

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I thought you could still use your glass. If it needs replacement then thicker acrylic is probably good. Wont last as long though.
Like pictured above, some white paneling looks good around the portlites. I once used a satin white formica like product that actually looked really good up there. Formica is not very forgiving cutting it though!
Unlike much Formica today it was perfectly smooth rather than kind of "gritty" looking. I used it in the entire head on that boat also. It looked just like satin white paint.

[liquidkangaroo]

Originally Posted by Suijin

It's hard to tell from the photos how big those deadlights are, and how they are installed. Is there an external frame that holds them in?

The one disadvantage of glass is that if it gets whacked with a whipping shackle, or flying snatch block, it can break. Acrylic is more forgiving in that respect but not as durable, ultimately. It's going to scratch and craze over time. If it were me, and I expected to keep the boat for awhile, I would opt for glass, depending on location and exposure.

I will climb aboard with my SLR tomorrow to get some better pics. But it looks like the glass was epoxied and set into a light groove in the outer frame and held in place with a plywood frame on the back. I intend on going offshore so whatever option I decide I want to make sure it holds up and is reinforced.

I will look into the Formica too. Right now, literally EVERYTHING on the interior needs to be rebuilt so I have a lot of leeway with creativity. I like the cabin in that pic!

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[liquidkangaroo]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I thought you could still use your glass. If it needs replacement then thicker acrylic is probably good. Wont last as long though.
Like pictured above, some white paneling looks good around the portlites. I once used a satin white formica like product that actually looked really good up there. Formica is not very forgiving cutting it though!
Unlike much Formica today it was perfectly smooth rather than kind of "gritty" looking. I used it in the entire head on that boat also. It looked just like satin white paint.

Unfortunately half of the panels are either missing or broken. Quotes I have received to have new glass cut range from $150-300/window vs. $10 for a 12x24 piece of 1/2" clear acrylic.

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[Hubbmeister]

I glued a 1/4" padded vinyl to Masonite panels for the hull coverings and on plywood for bulkheads on my old hunter which gave the boat an inexpensive updated look. Using a light colored material also made the interior look larger. Lots of sites on eBay to purchase the vinyl.


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[SVJennie]

I suggest you Google Lexan vs glass to see the difference - Lexan is at least 100 times stronger than glass, but it can be scratched, as is true with glass.

I have had large (2 foot+ square) opening upward unframed 1/4" thick Lexan windows on my dodger for at least 10 years (very few being at a marina), and the only problem I found was yellowing. I am now replacing the Lexan with Optix as it has a 10 year non-yellowing warranty. However, my Bomar aluminum frame portlights have been on the boat for at least twenty years and have no yellowing, but areas that are more prone to receiving sunlight have fogging similar to what can be found on a number of car headlights, but that is easy enough to clean.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

[George DuBose]

The hull liner on my Pearson 36 had severe water damage from leaking chainplates the PO didn't attend to. I scraped it all away and then followed Dan Spurr's technique detailed in Upgrading Your Cruising Sailboat.

I epoxied and glassed 3/4" halfround vertically to the inside of the hull and then mounted strips of Miranti wood with bronze screws to the halfround. Painted the Maranti an ivory color. I think it looks great, Miranti is water resistant and I can still remove pieces if I need access to anything behind.

I also added some sheets of exterior foam insulation behind the Miranti.

After painting the "Pearson teak" formica the same ivory color, the interior is much brighter.

I would stick with glass in the ports. One can shop around for reasonable prices for cutting. I did favors for a window company and they cut my new glass for free.

[Cheechako]

Yes, using strips would be easier than trying to get one piece panel with the openings cutout perfect!

[liquidkangaroo]

I got some higher quality pics with my SLR today. This weekend I plan on clearing/inventorying everything out of the main cabin into the vberth before I start the sanding and prep work for windows and paneling. I just unloaded all of the shots I took so I apologize in advance if some of them are blurry.

Edisto Pics

[Suijin]

Sorry I did not see your last post until now.

Boy, you have your work cut out for you. As a result my suggestions are going to slant towards the efficiency over perfect restoration.

First off, I'm going to bet that a lot of your interior teak is veneered ply. It may not be, depending on the date of production, but I'll bet it is.

As a result, do not take a power sander to any of it during refinishing. You'll burn through the veneer in an instant and have a much, much bigger problem on your hands. To strip it, go at it first with a heat gun and scrapers (use paint scrapers, not putty knives). Then, if need be, clean it up with a chemical remover. Whether you varnish or oil (much easier, but there's a whole debate over that which comes down ultimately to preference) will depend on what you end up with after stripping. OK that's out of the way.

Given the size of your deadlights, I'd go with acrylic. It should last you @ 15 years, give or take. Make wood templates (luan works well for this) of each one and use these as router guides. Will give you a nice smooth edge.

Looks like the panes were installed from the inside. I would use Sikkaflex to bed them, backed up with mechanical fastening (battens), but it's hard to tell from the photos what would be the best approach.

For the cabin trunk side paneling I think your choices come down to 1/4" veneered ply or a laminate. Either way you're going to need to smooth the substrate, filling the voids and giving you a good surface for glueing it down. Formica would be your easiest and least expensive option by far, although since it's adhered with contact cement it requires a nicely faired surface for a durable installation. I would make templates of the required panels using strips of luan assembled with a glue gun, then transfer those to the Formica and cut them out with a laminate router. It may seem like more work but in the end it's actually less as you get perfectly fitting pieces. Here's an example from my project last winter:

[liquidkangaroo]

Thank you very much for the detailed response!

I spent the weekend clearing out the interior and surprisingly, only about a dozen pieces of teak that were in there actually belonged to the boat. The good news was it was all of the important pieces.. cabinet doors, drawers and cabin doors. Now that I have cleared all of the unnecessary parts, she doesn't look as bad as the pictures show.

The remaining interior wood/bulkhead turned out to be veneered SOLID teak (no clue why they went that route). The veneer actually peeled off of everything without effort leaving me with a solid surface to work with. A local woodworker here at the marina recommended sanding, oiling and covering it in varnish for a truly classic look.

I have some marine grade teak plywood being delivered this weekend so that I can redo the base cabinetry in the galley that has rotted away from water coming in through the missing/broken deadlights.

Which Sikkaflex do you recommend for the windows? Looking at their products is seems there are a lot of options. Also, what do you recommend using to fill in the voids? Looking at the Formica options, I am going to go that route.

I will pick up some luan at the hardware store this weekend so that I can start making the templates. For now, I am spending the week scraping, sanding, cleaning and vacuuming the entire interior in preparation for painting/paneling.

Thank you very much for all of your advice so far.

Happy Sailing!

Originally Posted by Suijin

Sorry I did not see your last post until now.

Boy, you have your work cut out for you. As a result my suggestions are going to slant towards the efficiency over perfect restoration.

First off, I'm going to bet that a lot of your interior teak is veneered ply. It may not be, depending on the date of production, but I'll bet it is.

As a result, do not take a power sander to any of it during refinishing. You'll burn through the veneer in an instant and have a much, much bigger problem on your hands. To strip it, go at it first with a heat gun and scrapers (use paint scrapers, not putty knives). Then, if need be, clean it up with a chemical remover. Whether you varnish or oil (much easier, but there's a whole debate over that which comes down ultimately to preference) will depend on what you end up with after stripping. OK that's out of the way.

Given the size of your deadlights, I'd go with acrylic. It should last you @ 15 years, give or take. Make wood templates (luan works well for this) of each one and use these as router guides. Will give you a nice smooth edge.

Looks like the panes were installed from the inside. I would use Sikkaflex to bed them, backed up with mechanical fastening (battens), but it's hard to tell from the photos what would be the best approach.

For the cabin trunk side paneling I think your choices come down to 1/4" veneered ply or a laminate. Either way you're going to need to smooth the substrate, filling the voids and giving you a good surface for glueing it down. Formica would be your easiest and least expensive option by far, although since it's adhered with contact cement it requires a nicely faired surface for a durable installation. I would make templates of the required panels using strips of luan assembled with a glue gun, then transfer those to the Formica and cut them out with a laminate router. It may seem like more work but in the end it's actually less as you get perfectly fitting pieces. Here's an example from my project last winter:

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by liquidkangaroo

A local woodworker here at the marina recommended sanding, oiling and covering it in varnish for a truly classic look.

I would take a pause after you have it oiled and consider whether that's a good solution before you go and put varnish on it. Oiled teak has a lovely, warm quality to it. Three or four coats, well rubbed in between, and you may be satisfied with the result. A good interior varnishing requires a fair amount of craftsmanship, i.e., experience with varnishing, to ensure a passable result (no drips, bubbles, blooming, etc.). Also, varnish will show every flaw in the wood, such as dents and nicks, which can be an issue in older boats. The upside is that it does not require regular maintenance while an oiled finish will require light cleaning and reapplication every few years.

Originally Posted by liquidkangaroo

Which Sikkaflex do you recommend for the windows? Looking at their products is seems there are a lot of options.

That's a good question, and I'm backing away a bit from being convinced that Sikkaflex is the best product. An alternative might be black butyl rubber, which comes in rolls of round "cord". It has the consistency of super-sticky silly putty. It never hardens and if used properly is fabulous for rebedding port lights. One benefit is that you can mold it into the lip and surround, working it into different shapes and strips, and fill voids with it:



Perhaps some others will weigh in with other suggestions. While you need a material that is a good enough sealant, the issue is how much of an adhesive it needs to be. That is partially a function of what kind of mechanical fastening you'll use.

Originally Posted by liquidkangaroo

Also, what do you recommend using to fill in the voids? Looking at the Formica options, I am going to go that route.

I would just use a good quality wood filler. It has no structural function, it's just to get a smooth surface, and it will be sealed once the laminate is on top so weather resistance is not an issue. Wood filler will expand/contract with the cabin side and is easy to sand fair.

One issue with the laminate is that you'll need to figure out a way to "finish" the edges of it where it meets the deadlights. Was there teak trim there previously? Metal trim rings? Consider your solution for that before you dive in cutting the laminate.

As for cutting the dead light openings in the laminate, I would leave them uncut, install the laminate, and then use a flush trim router bit to cut the openings flush to the cutout in the substrate. Will ensure a perfect edge, provided the substrate cutout is smooth enough to guide the bearing.