Awlgrip - Where did I go wrong?

[Wind River]

Originally Posted by reed1v

You simply live in the wrong state. You are using wet/dry sandpaper, tack rags(real ones), in a dust free area(no wind, humidity, etc), and have washed the hull down one last time with acetone( it will suck up any water molecules that might be having a party on your hull). Also keep brushes in a protected environment like baggies.

This is a bowsprit that is removed from the boat, not a hull.
I did not use wet/dry sand paper, I used a random orbital and a vibrating sander with hook and loop backing. "Diablo" brand from Home Depot I think. Awlgrip brand tack cloth under a 70 foot long enclosed tent (my masts are in there too!) It is not dust free but it was a calm overcast morning. Rollers had been in the plastic bag they were purchased in. It has been decided that Acetone was not the best wipe down solvent for this application (see earlier posts)

Originally Posted by Three Sisters

Somehow 36 grit and mirror finish don't fit too well.

Should a query be made to Awlgrip whether they offer any classes in "Engineering according to Awlgrip" ?

I completely agree. Maybe if this were under the suggestions for prepping for high build primer I can understand it, but this under the "Topcoat prepping". I will likely do another light sanding before proceeding but certainly not with 36 grit.

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by Wind River

This is a bowsprit that is removed from the boat, not a hull.
I did not use wet/dry sand paper, I used a random orbital and a vibrating sander with hook and loop backing. "Diablo" brand from Home Depot I think. Awlgrip brand tack cloth under a 70 foot long enclosed tent (my masts are in there too!) It is not dust free but it was a calm overcast morning. Rollers had been in the plastic bag they were purchased in. It has been decided that Acetone was not the best wipe down solvent for this application (see earlier posts)




I completely agree. Maybe if this were under the suggestions for prepping for high build primer I can understand it, but this under the "Topcoat prepping". I will likely do another light sanding before proceeding but certainly not with 36 grit.

Trust me, use 545, is simple, Awlgrip recommend the use of 545 always , it seal the epoxy surface and leave you a nice surface where the topcoat just bond well , the rest is just making circles around the same problem, I bet you a cold pack that if you spray or roll the topcoat without primer it peel off in few months or first year, the epoxy even cured still leave traces of amine blush after time ..... sanded washed or ammonia no matter what,
if you follow each step you will be fine ....

[Scaramanga F25]

Amine blush is removed with a little soap and water.
Same for PVA.

What kind or roller were you using? Could it have let air bubbles or contaminants in your paint? Had it been cleaned or used previously?

[Wind River]

I will likely still get the primer. I have so much invested in this whole project, $100 in primer is cheap insurance that it will endure the years.

The question in the back of my mind is that if there is another problem with the surface, wont the primer have an adhesion problem too? I really want to know why I had this problem in the first place as I, and others, have applied Awlgrip on West Epoxy without this problem before. The spreaders I painted a year and a half ago still look like new. I think I will use the Awlprep too, as Jedi suggested. Trying to remove all doubt.

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by Wind River

I will likely still get the primer. I have so much invested in this whole project, $100 in primer is cheap insurance that it will endure the years.

The question in the back of my mind is that if there is another problem with the surface, wont the primer have an adhesion problem too? I really want to know why I had this problem in the first place as I, and others, have applied Awlgrip on West Epoxy without this problem before. The spreaders I painted a year and a half ago still look like new. I think I will use the Awlprep too, as Jedi suggested. Trying to remove all doubt.

No,, you don't,,, 545 is designed to seal the substrate, epoxy , fg etc...

[Wind River]

Originally Posted by Scaramanga F25

Amine blush is removed with a little soap and water.
Same for PVA.

What kind or roller were you using? Could it have let air bubbles or contaminants in your paint? Had it been cleaned or used previously?

I used running water and a scotch-brite pad before the final coat of epoxy before it was sanded, no soap. Then sanded and prepped as I described in the first post.

The foam roller did produce some air bubbles but he fish eyes cam back immediately after tipping with a brush. I purchased the recommended rollers from the Marine Supply store I got the paint from. New, not previously cleaned.

[Squanderbucks]

After sanding the 545 primer to 220 grit wash with denatured alcohol several times with cloth rags (lint free) and never paper towels. Also there is a NAPA product we sometimes use for a final wipe down just before spraying with Awlgrip but I'll have to go home later and see the name on the can. It helps reduce fisheyes. Paint as before but no paper products. Be sure and strain all mixed paint with paper/cheesecloth funnels before putting paint into cup .

[Wind River]

I am using Awlgrip's "Snow White" Top coat.

Would the experts here use the Gray primer to be able to see spots I might miss or that might be a little thin? or should I use the white primer. I'm planning on 3 coats of top coat.

Am I over thinking this?

[neilpride]

White top coat white 545, dark colors use the grey

[Squanderbucks]

So many steps to paint with Awlgrip it is easy to forget or skip one. Fair, Sand Fair, Sand, prime with 545, sand with 220,prime 545 again and with 220 if any blemishes, prime 545, sand with Scotchbrite pads if no blemishes, blow off or vacuum dust, wash several times with Denatured alcohol, Wear gloves from this point, making sure not to touch surfaces with bare hand or let sweat drip on it or back to alcohol wipe in the area. Let air dry a short while - few minutes depending on ambient temps, spray tack top coat layer - wait 45 minutes and spray second layer of topcoat to full thickness, evaluate and spray second layer of topcoat within few hours - depending it using any of the extra fast accelerator (for spraying).

[neilpride]

By spray you can actually put 2 or 3 full coats of 545 once... no sanding between coats..

[s/v Jedi]

I once had a roller that caused fish eyes. I rolled it on a piece of carton, put new paint on and it was fine after that. I now clean rollers by rolling them over 3M blue masking tape. Then after rolling in the paint tray, I first roll on a piece of carton or paper to check result and get rid of any contamination.


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[leftbrainstuff]

Originally Posted by Lignator

I have never had problems with fisheye using WEST. You haven't cleaned or sanded properly, if that has happened, but I am not an expert on WEST although I have used about 500 kilos of it, and ended up with reactions against it.

I use ammonia in water (obviously) for cleaning and haven't used acetone for years. I now use FLAG epoxy products and have used their Biosol cleaner or ammonia which is quite safe to use.

The sale of acetone to unlicensed users should be banned. In the boatyard where I am I still find people cleaning off their skin with the damn stuff.

You must use thick nitrile gloves with it, like epoxy it can get through latex for example and then through your skin into your bloodstream and damage your organs. Not nice! Ban it, along with MDF another bugbear of mine.DUST

I was talking to a young cabinetmaker today, a graduate of the top furniture school in the UK (Rycotewood), he has never had an airdriven facemask or considered having one. He knew nothing of nasal cancer.

What's (not) going on! Bring back the unions, no one else is looking after you, the producers of these products for general use certainly are not.

With epoxy finishes, timing with temperature is key also adhesion between coats, wet on wet or sanding/cleaning. A lot of the primer stuff is ******** in my not very humble opinion. FLAG products do not blush like WEST.

Acetone's main risk is flammability and even that is not much of an issue because it evaporates so readily. It is not considered a carcinogen or to have any specific chronic or toxic effects as an industrial consumable.

It's produced, and metabolised, in the body of alcoholics and diabetics in far greater concentrations than absorption when rinsing one's hands.

It is also a substance that does not degrades the environment. It is, chemically, the simplest ketone and breaks down readily.

I can think of many more substances worthy of banning.

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[takeabow40]

Originally Posted by Wind River

After a month of sanding, epoxy coating, sanding, epoxy coating, sanding........... I thought I had my bowsprit ready for paint. I mixed the Awgrip 2:1 (topcoat to converter) and added 10% brushing reducer and mixed some more. I began to roll it on with a foam roller and I thought I was looking into a school of sardines there were so many fish eye's!

It's all in the prep they say and this is what I did.

After stripping the old paint with a heat gun, scraper and a sander, I continued to sand to nice clean wood. I drilled out and filled every screw hole with West Epoxy. I applied West Epoxy with 205 Slow hardener to the entire bowsprit. After it set up, I sanded it and applied another coat doing this 3 times. I then read that I should have been a washing the blush off before sanding for the next coat. (I thought sanding would take it off) I then applied another coat and washed the last coat with water and scotchbrite pad before sanding with 120 grit. I wiped down the surface with Acetone between all coats.

Now, having given a bowsprit probably more attention than it deserves, I am ready to paint. I blew off the all the dust as I wiped with a dry paper towel. I then wiped down the entire surface with Acetone using the two rag method. I mixed up my paint and just before applying it I lightly wiped the entire surface with an Awlgrip brand tack rag.

Where did I go wrong and what do I do now?
Sand back to bare wood and start over?
Could not cleaning the blush before sanding, contaminate the surface? (although I did clean before sanding on the last coat)
The topcoat was purchased a week ago but the converter and brushing reducer were left over from a project about 18 months ago. Do they go bad?

DEFINITELY the catalyst most are only good for 12 months if unopened once opened you have maybe 6 months if more than half a kit I use 2 pack everyday and majority of mixing instructions require you to mix complete kit how did you end up with part catalyst ?

[lateral]

Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff

Acetone's main risk is flammability and even that is not much of an issue because it evaporates so readily. It is not considered a carcinogen or to have any specific chronic or toxic effects as an industrial consumable.

It's produced, and metabolised, in the body of alcoholics and diabetics in far greater concentrations than absorption when rinsing one's hands.

It is also a substance that does not degrades the environment. It is, chemically, the simplest ketone and breaks down readily.

I can think of many more substances worthy of banning.

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+10 on acetone in above.

Lignators your post on acetone is erroneous.
I have snorkelled in the stuff over the years. What is dangerous is what is dissolved in it.

West 105/205 is good stuff, but one day you WILL regret not paying attention to its blushing characteristics.