Am I a fool to try and paint my top sides myself

[Tatheelrod22]

I just joined the Forum and am overwhelmed at the amount of time and information you knid people have shared. It's another validation as to the many reasons to get back into the sailing community!

Much to think about and consider. I'm actually thinking about the reply that reminded me how the darker the color the more mistakes or poor prep will show. If I combine that with my lack of experience, with the fact this boat will probably never be north of the AL/TN border, and dark hulls can act like a convection oven down this way, I might actually paint it white! I will always remember the Saturday morning early in my sailing days when a visiting yacht was at our Marina when I pulled in for a morning of "boat piddlin'"(glad to explain pidlin' to anyone in the diverse group that doesn't speak Southern Redneck!). Not long after the Owner walked down the dock and climbed aboard,I waked down to welcome him and compliment his boat, plus added that it is a dream of mine to have a dark green or deep royal blue boat one day, but it seemed like every one I looked into that appealed to me was 1,000 miles away and drew 5 to 6 ft., which I didn't want along the gulf coast. He said "Son, there is a reason all the dark hulled boats are mostly up north and have pretty deep keels, they have more water for the most part and it's not 95 with 95 humidity for 3 solid months each year."

As I ponder this, I think I've at least seen a picture of every Eagle still afloat, and don't recall seeing a white one. I had a Legnos Mystic 30 for a while and it was also traditional, beamy, with lots of wood I kept bright, with tan decks. This Eagle might look nice just like that.

Confirm I'm correct here...... since I'll be sanding and leveling for hours on end, there should be no reason to worry about going from Black to White right?

[GrahamHO]

I've painted several wooden boats up to my previous 24'. The type of paint you use will depend on the paint already on the boat as I doubt you will remove it all. The new paint has to be compatible with the old. When you rub down do only one side at a time and spot prime where necessary as soon as you have sanded so bare wood is not exposed for long. Then paint that side before moving on and sanding, painting the next side.
I found that using vertical strokes gave a very good finish. That way you can always be painting with a wet edge so the strokes blend together nicely. If you roll / brush along the length, by the time you get to the end, the beginning will have started to dry and not blend so well with the next line. That may seem contrary but any brush / roller marks flatten out nicely going vertically.



Personally I would avoid using 2 part paints on an older wooden hull, as it will be harder than the original paint. I went to a demo of using new single pot polyurethane paint which gave a beautiful finish on a small fibre glass boat just roller / brushing. I've not used them but I would check with the paint supplier about compatibility with your existing paint if you are tempted. I would use old fashioned enamel on an older wooden boat myself.


There are companies that can build a plastic tent over your boat. That's what I would check out if I were doing it again.


You can do it easily. It's not a foolish thing to do.. If it is I must be a fool??

[GrahamHO]

By the way. I'd paint it white myself. Use white undercoat before two top coats Dark paint absorbs more UV and it gets hotter in the sun, so doesn't last as long.

[malbert73]

I did my prior boat, a Luders 33, in black using interlux perfection. From 20 feet away looked like spray job. Did cove stripe with bright sides. 4 years later cove stripe had completely faded and peeled while the hull still looked flawless.
Hull was gloss black, cove stripe red.

Moral: For the work you're putting in, use a 2 part designed for rolling and tipping. Slightly harder to work with than brightsides, but the final paint application only takes 1-2 hours per coat as you move fast, but the prep work is exponentially longer.


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[CarinaPDX]

Many years ago I painted my wooden house sides with 2-part PU. It looked great, and held up for 10 years (with the exception of the seams, which worked too much for the paint). When it came time to redo the job I found out that the 2-part's hardness was a disadvantage: it was very difficult to remove. Since then I have been using Brightsides, which is easier to apply and remove but also not as long-lasting. Your choice...

Greg

[Rick Williams]

We have lots of freeboard on our DE 38 so we spent weeks and weeks hand sanding the old finish off then sanding and tacking and tacking again between each coat of Awlgrip. It did take us several coats to get the hang of the roll and tip but I'm pretty sure we'd spray next time. The yard has a big compressor which is important when using a pot but our paint supplier told us he could to 3 top coats in about an hour: top coat when the last coat is barely dry; just not tacky, which would have saved us countless hours of sanding between coats. I think getting the hang of spraying might be easier than rolling and tipping. We got it down but there was a steep learning curve and forget it if your climate is even a little warm. The weather has to be cool!
Cool! No sun! Cool! And don't bother trying to substitute any of the dozens of special Awlgrip products, bite the bullet, learn the handshake get the special everything and the finish will be worth it.

[Tatheelrod22]

Thanks again folks and I think I'm going to do this. ( I must sleep on it and if I CAN"T sleep there is probably a message in that!

Anyway, now I have this question. Space isn't an issue. Dust control however (for matrimonial sanctity) is. I just read about adapter's that will work with orbital and random orbital sanders. Any experience with them? Do they work? Should I invest in a different type system? If it works I cant imagine why not to go this route but some of you might have the voice of experience saying "you always get what you pay for and this is a waste of time and money". Believe me I'm not looking for an excuse to buy some fancy saner/dust collection system, but if that's the way to go I must consider it.

Also, lighting in basement is terrible. I spend a lot of time moving light pedestal with those incredibly bright bulbs in them around a lot. Sometimes I think the blinding glare of those is as bad as shadows for poor lighting. Should I research better lighting?

I should also add that I strongly suspect as soon as the Eagle gets launched, something else will go in the shop, and right now I'm thinking a home built kayak project called a Pygmy Osprey. This is a stitch and glue project that is epoxied and varnished, so there will continue to be a need fpr proper dust collection and lighting.

[roverhi]

Talked with a guy who did his 40' boat roll and tip using 2 part polyurethane. Results were very good on the topsides. Only after looking at the hull closely could I tell it wasn't a spray job. The color was white which may have made the results better than a shiny dark color. The deck was less of a success. For some reason the paint was quite flat and looked like old paint even though it was only a few years old. Don't know why or how that could happen though boat was in the PNW and temp or moisture at time of painting may have been an issue. He wasn't a professional painter, actually a retiree from the State Department, just trying to save money refinishing a much abused dark blue topsides on a 40 year old boat.

He said the key to getting a good finish was having three people working on the painting. One to roll, another to tip with a brush, and a third to take care of rotating the brushes through thinner, mix paint, and handle anything that would interrupt the roller and tipper's progress. Once you start painting, keep[ on moving forward till you're done.

[roland stockham]

No reason to not be able to get an acceptable finish. Don't know the boat but as you say she is a classic then I assume she is a wooden hull. If that is right don't be tempted by any 2 part finish, they don't have the elasticity needed and will fail. The way I was shown was to build up with primer and undercoat untill you have what looks like a perfect finish. Then apply a coat of 50% gloss, 50% undercoat. This give some shine but will still take the topcoat and the semi-gloss finish shows up all the imperfections. You then go round with a very fine polyester filler, the stiff they sell at the car shop is great, but you need a paint filler not a wood filler. Mix it with some undercoat to make it even smoother and delay setting and gently wipe over any marks with a wide soft filling knife. If you can then do the final topcoat indoors but in any case it needs to be still and not to hot. The key is getting the hull at the right temp. To cold and it will stop the paint sticking but to hot and you can't get a finish. I have had to repaint in the Caribbean and it is impossible to get a good finish. That lovely smooth high gloss is caused by the surface tension in the paint pulling out fine brush or spray marks. If it is too hot the paint dries from the bottom up so this can't happen.
The other thing is that yes, you do want it to look good but you are also going to scuff it and need to do it all again in a year or two. Don't get so obsessed that you spend all your time painting and don't go sailing!

[admiralslater]

We rolled and tipped our Pdq 27 with 2 part ephaines (spelling) paint, 4 inch roller and good quality foam brush no home depot junk. Started at one end and kept on moving. My brother rolled vertically only, and I tipped. When the brush started to drag I added more thinner. Don't be afraid to change the foam brush before it gets soaked with Paint. Boat looked great for the next 10 years

[oldragbaggers]

Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos

Not sure if I read it correctly but are panning to roll and tip 1 part Brightsides enamel? If so I wouldn't waste the time. I'd spend more money and do a 2 art or even awlgrip that would look amazing. My opinion Brightside 1 part sucks for anything other than have g a quick easy to touch up as it's not going to hold up well.

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This is not our experience at all. We painted several boats and a camper with it and it was very durable and if done correctly can look fantastic. Our Bristol 24 still looked great the last time we saw it and the paint job was over 5 years old. Our teardrop camper gave us 3 seasons and thousands of road miles and looked brand new when we sold it. Have you actually used Brightsides, or are you just speculating??

We'll be painting our CD-33 with it also, no question.

[Dulcesuenos]

I've used it and our friends who restore boats used it for one year and they sure regretted it. It may be ok if it doesn't get much foot traffic I don't think your walking all over your camper and for protection from dock rash it sucks compared to a 2 part. All the boats I've done with it and my friends now need to be redone in a very serious way.. The only place it excells is in retouching up and for good reason...

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[GrahamHO]

Originally Posted by Tatheelrod22

Thanks again folks and I think I'm going to do this. ( I must sleep on it and if I CAN"T sleep there is probably a message in that!

Anyway, now I have this question. Space isn't an issue. Dust control however (for matrimonial sanctity) is. I just read about adapter's that will work with orbital and random orbital sanders. Any experience with them? Do they work? Should I invest in a different type system? If it works I cant imagine why not to go this route but some of you might have the voice of experience saying "you always get what you pay for and this is a waste of time and money". Believe me I'm not looking for an excuse to buy some fancy saner/dust collection system, but if that's the way to go I must consider it.

Also, lighting in basement is terrible. I spend a lot of time moving light pedestal with those incredibly bright bulbs in them around a lot. Sometimes I think the blinding glare of those is as bad as shadows for poor lighting. Should I research better lighting?

I should also add that I strongly suspect as soon as the Eagle gets launched, something else will go in the shop, and right now I'm thinking a home built kayak project called a Pygmy Osprey. This is a stitch and glue project that is epoxied and varnished, so there will continue to be a need fpr proper dust collection and lighting.

I use a good quality Makita orbital sander. It takes 125 mm discs with dust extraction holes in them. They are held on with a type of velcro on their backing. The make of sander isn't too important. The same discs fit different makes. The good expensive sanders have better bearings that will last for all your projects. Mine has had a lot of use especially inside my boat. Then in the confined space I took off the dust collection bag and adapted a vacuum cleaner with a bit of flexible hose taped into the vacuum hose. It does get in the way a bit but extracts the dust. You still need a good dust mask and safety goggles. It gets quite warm breathing through a mask with the 1100 watt vacuum going inside the boat. Outside won't be as bad. Outdoors I use the supplied dust bag and empty it with a vacuum cleaner. You need a lightweight sander as its a bit like exercising with a dumbbell. The Velcro pad on my sander eventually became worn out after a great deal of work. A Makita replacement Velcro pad was easily available to screw on, and now the second pad is starting to wear. It's not a fault; simply wear and tear. A cheap sander might not have spares and might wear more quickly??

If you bounce your lights off some large sheets of white polystyrene foam (as in photography and filming) you can get almost shadowless lighting. Polystyrene behind you and lights pointing back at the poly. Google bounce lighting if you're not sure. A good sander a good cordless drill and a vacuum cleaner are the most useful tools you can have. With an attachment on the drill you can stir your paint. With a cordless drill you can control the speed. I use a lithium ion battery powered good quality drill in a kit with 2 batteries. It has no trouble drilling stainless steel.

Good luck with your kayak project. It sounds a good thing to do. Remember they can get a few knocks bouncing off rocks and being dragged up beaches, so don't make it too delicate. The sander and drill will be indispensable on that project so buy good quality. I hope all that helps.

[oldragbaggers]

Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos

I've used it and our friends who restore boats used it for one year and they sure regretted it. It may be ok if it doesn't get much foot traffic I don't think your walking all over your camper and for protection from dock rash it sucks compared to a 2 part. All the boats I've done with it and my friends now need to be redone in a very serious way.. The only place it excells is in retouching up and for good reason...

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

That's interesting because we did the decks on our B24 with it also, used very fine silica sand for the non skid with Grand Banks Beige and white for the rest. The decks were beautiful. We owned and sailed the boat for 3 years,usually with a group of people aboard, and a year of that we lived aboard so the decks got walked on plenty. And like I said we saw the boat in California several years after we sold it and the hull and decks still looked great. Not sure what we did differently than you or your friends, but our experience with the paint is definitely different from what you are describing.

[darylat8750]

I agree with the concept of 3people on the job. I think your boat is small enough that with 3 people you could start at a back corner and go around the whole topside in one shot. The most skilled on the roller because the amount of paint applied is the most important thing. One person tipping and one guy cleaning brushes and general support. You can do it!