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Old 22-11-2014, 09:46   #16
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Re: A mistake no one should repeat.....

Beautiful repair job, sorry for your loss. Hope to see you out there, we are Rain Dog. We will be running around bahamas and east coast. What is the name of the Mac? so I can keep an eye out for you.
Cheers,
Erika
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Old 22-11-2014, 09:49   #17
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Re: A mistake no one should repeat.....

PS- have followed Ruth's canvas blog, learned a lot and gave me some great ideas.
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Old 22-11-2014, 11:54   #18
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Re: A mistake no one should repeat.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
....However, your choice of black bottom paint is THE WORST you can choose for storing/hauling a boat long term in South Florida. ....
Thanks for the advice but....



... the final color is blue and actually after sitting a while not as dark blue as it appears in the pictures. It fads out and according to Sea Hawk we should scuff it with a scotchbrite pad lightly just before going back into the water. It is ablative.



The boat to the right of ours actually has a darker blue bottom on it and has been there longer than us with no apparent problems but it is good to know about the black. I could see where that could really generate some heat.

We used the black as the first coat of bottom paint so that when it starts to show it is time to put more of the blue on. I have the same blue on the boat here at the house that ....



....sits on a trailer all of the time and at 6,000 feet here the sun is also pretty intense and it doesn't seem to heat up so hopefully we are fine. I should be at the boat in 3-4 weeks so will get a firsthand look,

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Old 22-11-2014, 12:03   #19
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Re: A mistake no one should repeat.....

[QUOTE=rognvald;1683743]Sumner,
Excellent job on detailing your considerable work. However, your choice of black bottom paint is THE WORST you can choose for storing/hauling a boat long term in South Florida. ....

Sounds to me like the dark paint did you a favor in exposing issues you already had... You think dark blue would have been better? :>)
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Old 22-11-2014, 12:04   #20
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Re: A mistake no one should repeat.....

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Originally Posted by Ocean Girl View Post
Beautiful repair job, sorry for your loss. Hope to see you out there, we are Rain Dog. We will be running around bahamas and east coast. What is the name of the Mac? so I can keep an eye out for you.
Cheers,
Erika
Thanks, right now the Macgregor is Kera Jane and was named after Ruth's two daughters but I'm thinking about changing the name to Ruth Ann as that would mean so much more to me now.

Nice that you mentioned Ruth's projects. She taught me how to sew and I really enjoy it. Didn't really ever think I would ,

Hope to meet up with you guys and others on here,

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Old 22-11-2014, 14:49   #21
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Re: A mistake no one should repeat.....

[QUOTE=Cheechako;1683837]
Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
Sumner,
Excellent job on detailing your considerable work. However, your choice of black bottom paint is THE WORST you can choose for storing/hauling a boat long term in South Florida. ....

Sounds to me like the dark paint did you a favor in exposing issues you already had... You think dark blue would have been better? :>)

Cheech,
The rudder was perfect for the 13 previous years with no imperfections, water or delamination. I always sounded my rudder 2x a year with a mallet--at haulout and well before commissioning. The year I switched to Petit Aqua Clean (black), we launched in November and hauled in June the next year. The boat sat on the hard in Tampa Bay until we returned in October(5 months). The rudder had bulges on both sides when we returned. It had clearly delaminated. I asked two contractors to look at the rudder after my inspection and both agreed that the black paint cooking in the Florida summer sun caused the rudder to delaminate. They recommended that I change the color to white. Would dark blue have been better? I believe that it would have produced the same results. As a result of this experience, my rudder is painted with Vivid White and since its rebuild I would have no concern for it sitting in the sun in South Florida for an extended period. Experience is the best teacher and those who are reluctant/unwilling to learn from another's mistake must accept the consequences. After all, it was probably delaminated before . . . right? Good luck and good sailing.
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Old 22-11-2014, 15:06   #22
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Re: A mistake no one should repeat.....

Sorry for your loss. Sweet job on the hull pards.
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Old 22-11-2014, 16:43   #23
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Re: A mistake no one should repeat.....

[QUOTE=rognvald;1683944]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post


Cheech,
The rudder was perfect for the 13 previous years with no imperfections, water or delamination. I always sounded my rudder 2x a year with a mallet--at haulout and well before commissioning. The year I switched to Petit Aqua Clean (black), we launched in November and hauled in June the next year. The boat sat on the hard in Tampa Bay until we returned in October(5 months). The rudder had bulges on both sides when we returned. It had clearly delaminated. I asked two contractors to look at the rudder after my inspection and both agreed that the black paint cooking in the Florida summer sun caused the rudder to delaminate. They recommended that I change the color to white. Would dark blue have been better? I believe that it would have produced the same results. As a result of this experience, my rudder is painted with Vivid White and since its rebuild I would have no concern for it sitting in the sun in South Florida for an extended period. Experience is the best teacher and those who are reluctant/unwilling to learn from another's mistake must accept the consequences. After all, it was probably delaminated before . . . right? Good luck and good sailing.
Yeah, I left my P47 in fort pierce, fl June thru September...Black bottom paint... broadside to the mid day sun. No issues. I think you had a delam problem going on. I mean... let's face it.... if the color of your boat is causing issues... you got a boat problem! haha
I think a lot more people have water in their rudders than they realize... a good thick layup rudder is hard to sound for sure... Foam doesn't sound very well wet or dry underneath thick glass!
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Old 24-11-2014, 09:56   #24
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Re: A mistake no one should repeat.....

[QUOTE=Cheechako;1684017]
Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post

Yeah, I left my P47 in fort pierce, fl June thru September...Black bottom paint... broadside to the mid day sun. No issues. I think you had a delam problem going on. I mean... let's face it.... if the color of your boat is causing issues... you got a boat problem! haha
I think a lot more people have water in their rudders than they realize... a good thick layup rudder is hard to sound for sure... Foam doesn't sound very well wet or dry underneath thick glass!

Cheech,
Are you aware that it is standard practice among many boaters and advice by many surveyors to cover dark colored rudders or to paint them white?
Here's the recommendation by Foss Foam--a major builder of rudders in Florida speaking about the heat generating damage caused by dark rudders. newrudders.com/?page_id=4
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Old 24-11-2014, 10:01   #25
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Re: A mistake no one should repeat.....

Cheech,
Here's the exact warning from Foss Foam concerning painting rudders a dark color.

"We do not recommend the use of dark color bottom paint for your rudder, as they generate heat whenever your boat is out of the water and in the sun. Since your rudder is made of cellular material this heat can cause dimensional changes and cosmetic damage. If the rudder is painted a dark color it should be shielded from the sun with a white wrapping whenever the boat is out of the water. YOUR RUDDER WARRANTY EXCLUDES DAMAGE CAUSED BY HEAT."
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Old 24-11-2014, 11:08   #26
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Re: A mistake no one should repeat.....

Yep, they're covering their A**!
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Old 24-11-2014, 11:49   #27
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Re: A mistake no one should repeat.....

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Yep, they're covering their A**!

Cheech,
So they're lying about the effects of the sun on a rudder painted a dark color just to "cover their asses" or could it be possible that there is, in fact, science and history in their experience that supports their admonitions? R
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Old 24-11-2014, 12:01   #28
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Re: A mistake no one should repeat.....

I'm just saying if your boat can be trashed by the sun..... well... you've got the wrong boat! No they are probably not lying about THEIR rudders!
It's similar to t he other thread regarding light production boats vs old school boats. I gave an example of a 42' Charter boat I managed hitting a rock at 5 knots and causing $20k in damage. and then an example of hitting a few times in my 47 ft heavy boat at 5-6 knots and suffering only scraped bottom paint. There is a difference in how things are built.... that's all I'm saying. There are foam and balsa cored decks too... do they split open from the sun?
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Old 24-11-2014, 12:39   #29
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Re: A mistake no one should repeat.....

" There are foam and balsa cored decks too... do they split open from the sun?" Cheechako


Answer: Are they painted black?
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Old 24-11-2014, 12:51   #30
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Re: A mistake no one should repeat.....

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Yep, they're covering their A**!
Cheech, you're stretching this too far.
Given your apparent WA location ( ~44N+ ?) you might not fully appreciate the insolation effects of good ol' Sol down around 28N-28S. At lower latitudes, like SoFL, and in my case SoTX (29-26N), the extra IR energy punch is significant.

Let me give an example, not a rudder or hull, but we all wear them: shoes.
A genuine SWAG comparison-- I usually wear a certain model of New Balance 'tennies' (dating myself here), the ones with the velcro*, white ones.
So I need a new pair and the place I usually buy them only has them in black ATT (I am size 14-15, so harder to find a fit), so I get the black ones.
First time wearing them out in the sun my feet (and especially the tops) were getting roasted inside those black shoes, change them, no particular problem in the same white shoes.
Lesson learned, and applies to other clothing too; always knew that, back to wearing boots, but hadn't had such a clear comparison by simply changing them in black/white.

* This is 19xx/20xx, tying shoelaces just seems so 9-19th century...began wearing those whenever they first came out, never looked back, hightech stuff :] .


And to Sumner (OP), so sorry to hear of your loss.
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