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01-05-2016, 07:11
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cortez Island BC
Boat: Corbin 39
Posts: 198
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Wont Start
I have a Perkins 4.236 that has intermittent starting problems. I have had this problem for 5 years. It starts , almost always, when cold first attempt. It is after its run for a bit that starting is a challenge.
Here is yesterdays example . Boat started first attempt , ran for maybe 30 minutes before raising the sails and shutting down. Sailed for 4 hours and when went to start it it all I get is a click, no cranking. After 5 minutes of attempts it starts and I motor in.
Everyone , myself included, feels its an electrical issue. I have changed the starter, solenoid ( 2 x ) , ground cable , cleaned all connections, dis engaged the safety neutral, changed the starting button. Nothing has made an ounce of difference. It always starts, eventually, but its inability to start on demand is a problem.
Before I go and spend some more money anyone have any idea on what this could be caused from.
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01-05-2016, 07:15
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#2
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cat herder, extreme blacksheep
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 18,967
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Re: Wont Start
have you changed out the wires yet?? you could have a cracked wire issue. connectors need to be new and wires intact. otherwise you will replace a lot of not needed to replace items of pricey nature.
good luck.
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01-05-2016, 07:46
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cortez Island BC
Boat: Corbin 39
Posts: 198
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Re: Wont Start
Yes Zee that is one thing I thought of last night as well, I will definitely go over them today
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01-05-2016, 07:53
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#4
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cat herder, extreme blacksheep
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 18,967
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Re: Wont Start
what comes in sleep usually is the issue or fix for issue. best fun and fortune.
life is an adventure meant to be LIVED!!!
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01-05-2016, 08:32
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 25,453
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Re: Wont Start
Two things I can think of:
1) Does your gear shift control have a switch in it to avoid starting in gear? If so It may be defective . Been there done that! You can bypass it with a wire to find out.
2) My Perkins 4-108 did that sometimes. There was a big white multi wire connector on the back of the engine, The pins were corroded inside the connector.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard
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01-05-2016, 08:33
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#6
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cat herder, extreme blacksheep
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 18,967
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Re: Wont Start
check your kill lever. if stuck slightly it can prevent restarting.
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01-05-2016, 09:08
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Cruising the Gulf of Mexico.
Boat: 1980 Morgan 415
Posts: 1,452
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Re: Wont Start
Quote:
Originally Posted by cortezsailor
I have a Perkins 4.236 that has intermittent starting problems. I have had this problem for 5 years. It starts , almost always, when cold first attempt. It is after its run for a bit that starting is a challenge.
Here is yesterdays example . Boat started first attempt , ran for maybe 30 minutes before raising the sails and shutting down. Sailed for 4 hours and when went to start it it all I get is a click, no cranking. After 5 minutes of attempts it starts and I motor in.
Everyone , myself included, feels its an electrical issue. I have changed the starter, solenoid ( 2 x ) , ground cable , cleaned all connections, dis engaged the safety neutral, changed the starting button. Nothing has made an ounce of difference. It always starts, eventually, but its inability to start on demand is a problem.
Before I go and spend some more money anyone have any idea on what this could be caused from.
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The most common cause would be a weak battery. Use a volt meter and look for voltage drop.
__________________
Working on spending my children's inheritance.
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01-05-2016, 09:23
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cortez Island BC
Boat: Corbin 39
Posts: 198
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Re: Wont Start
Thanks everyone , I have over rode the safety neutral switch and new batteries as well , all test good
Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
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01-05-2016, 10:09
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#9
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 16,306
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Re: Wont Start
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cap Erict3
The most common cause would be a weak battery. Use a volt meter and look for voltage drop.
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If you continue to be stumped then this is what I would try. While a helper attempts to start the engine take a voltmeter, move up the circuit from starter to battery and look for where you get the voltage drop.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.
Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
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01-05-2016, 10:19
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Diego CA
Boat: Liberty 458
Posts: 2,205
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Re: Wont Start
Quote:
Originally Posted by cortezsailor
I have a Perkins 4.236 that has intermittent starting problems. I have had this problem for 5 years. It starts , almost always, when cold first attempt. It is after its run for a bit that starting is a challenge.
Here is yesterdays example . Boat started first attempt , ran for maybe 30 minutes before raising the sails and shutting down. Sailed for 4 hours and when went to start it it all I get is a click, no cranking. After 5 minutes of attempts it starts and I motor in.
Everyone , myself included, feels its an electrical issue. I have changed the starter, solenoid ( 2 x ) , ground cable , cleaned all connections, dis engaged the safety neutral, changed the starting button. Nothing has made an ounce of difference. It always starts, eventually, but its inability to start on demand is a problem.
Before I go and spend some more money anyone have any idea on what this could be caused from.
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Certainly sounds electrical. If you've changed the obvious and checked all connections for voltage drop than you may have a wiring issue.
Try bypassing the low current draw starting circuit wiring.
Do you by any chance have a hidden relay between your start switch and starter solenoid? They can cause this type of problem.
Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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01-05-2016, 10:24
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 25,453
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Re: Wont Start
His boat makes a click, so the starter low amp circuit is working. It must be in the big cables somewhere. I have heard of engines stopping so the gear wont quite engage the flywheel gear, but never a Perkins.
But that's a thought, next time it does it, go below and move the crank maybe just a little bit and see if that solves it.
By "over rode the neutral safety switch" what did you do? I had the problem on a powerboat once and it wasn't fixed until I replaced the whole wiring from the key switch to the starter. Must have been in the wire somewhere. I had thought it was the Neutral SS.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard
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01-05-2016, 10:35
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cortez Island BC
Boat: Corbin 39
Posts: 198
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Re: Wont Start
Quote:
Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff
Certainly sounds electrical. If you've changed the obvious and checked all connections for voltage drop than you may have a wiring issue.
Try bypassing the low current draw starting circuit wiring.
Do you by any chance have a hidden relay between your start switch and starter solenoid? They can cause this type of problem.
Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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Not sure if there's a hidden relay I don't believe so but electrical is not my bag , I will check . When I say I over rode the neutral safety I simply joined the two connections to make it believe it's always in neutral . I thought this was the problem originally . Because the issue is intermittent and it does always start it's tough . If I needed to start in a hurry though I would have an issue and where I sail there is land everywhere .
I am leaning towards replacing all the wiring back to the starter but I do appreciate all the great advice . Before I do change it , I will try the other suggestions first.
Thanks
Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
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01-05-2016, 15:00
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: virginia
Boat: islandpacket
Posts: 1,967
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Re: Wont Start
If it starts when on shore power and not when you sail with the motor off. I feel its either an electrical short or you are using to much power from Autopilot, lights, radio before recharging. You said you had a new battery, have you checked your alternator? Maybe battery is to small for use. Just some random thoughts.
__________________
That derelict boat was another dream for somebody else, don't let it be your nightmare and a waste of your life.
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01-05-2016, 15:16
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#14
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S/V rubber ducky
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: heading "south"
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 20,362
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Re: Wont Start
Could be the start switch itself. I replaced mine just 5 years ago but can tell it is starting to go bad.
__________________
Don't ask a bunch of unknown forum people if it is OK to do something on YOUR boat. It is your boat, do what you want!
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01-05-2016, 15:18
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 13,479
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Re: Wont Start
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cap Erict3
The most common cause would be a weak battery. Use a volt meter and look for voltage drop.
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Dying start batt would have been my guess, but he says he changed out the batt. My port engine is currently doing this due to a dying start batt (next up on the maint list).
My next guess would be a charging issue. Cranks fine first time and then wont turn over. My Jeep did this recently, relatively new batt, turned out to be a loose connection at alternator. (Happened when I was away of course as it always does...my wife does not have much patience for such things!)
My suggestion. Start and go sailing as usual, then check batt voltage before attempting to start.
Also check negative connection to engine block, could be a poor connection there. Remove and clean even if it looks good and is secure.
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