Universal 5424 with Hurth Transmission problem

[topmast]

Sometimes a wedge (or screwdriver if you are not well equipt) can separate the joint A bit here ,a bit there. Maybe someone used a gasket goo .Did the box come off separate? Hope the drive plate splines are not rusted to the input shaft There may be an access plate to remove the plate bolts. one at a time. You may still learn about easyouts. Why would anyone cool the trannie with raw salt water if they have fresh cooled engine. Trouble with most U tube instructioners .No lesson planing or coherent thought. Old time shop teacher here.

[basssears]

Originally Posted by topmast

Why would anyone cool the trannie with raw salt water if they have fresh cooled engine.

My thought process on this would be that the raw water would be a lot cooler and therefore have a lot better cooling effect in a presumably not overly efficient water jacket / heat sink style transmission cooler.

Where would be the coolest place to splice into the fresh water system for a transmission cooler... after the heat exchanger before the coolant goes back into the block?

[topmast]

In the land of cold water and big enough heatexchangerss I figure its more of planing good hose routing .Most important to avoid air locking ,bubbles have to rise naturaly to expansion tank. A failed oil heat exchanger running on fresh water is not likely to fill the oilpan or gearbox with an neverending supply of salt water which if you think about it ,is a good idea.

[basssears]

Originally Posted by topmast

A failed oil heat exchanger running on fresh water is not likely to fill the oilpan or gearbox with an neverending supply of salt water which if you think about it ,is a good idea.

True, and yes neverending supply of salt water is bad. OTOH, a failed fresh water heat exchanger would drain my cooling system and potentially cook my engine. Hmmm.

[Obi Wan]

Originally Posted by topmast

Sometimes a wedge (or screwdriver if you are not well equipt) ...

It's not about the basics. I'm an aircraft mechanic after all. It's about knowing for sure how something is supposed to be disassembled. I'm pretty sure I think how it is, but I would much prefer to know for sure so I don't screw something up.

I have a relatively detailed manual for the engine. I found info on how to disassemble the gearbox. But nothing on the mating of the two (for my specific combo).

I did manage to get the bell housing to separate on one side, but the other side (around the sheared bolt) is holding fast, which is unusual. Usually when you get something like this to open a little, the rest separates easily. I don't know if the sheared bolt has fused itself to the aluminum bell housing, or if there is something on the drive shaft keeping it from moving, or both...

Damned hard to work in the cramp space of the engine area too. Give me a de-cowled airplane any day.

I'm contemplating removing the whole engine now because I see that my engine mounts are shot and will have to lift it anyway. That's not something I'm looking forward to.

[topmast]

In the real world of failures and screw ups the drained fresh water system would show up on the gauges ,alarms or dip stick .Which of course you are diligently on top of. If heat ex on salt water it usually fails along with the anti syphon while you have left the boat until next week and now your'e cleaning the engine oil off the deckhead because it floats .sorry for the drift

[Obi Wan]

Guys, you might want to move the cooling issue to another thread...

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Obi Wan

It's not about the basics. I'm an aircraft mechanic after all. It's about knowing for sure how something is supposed to be disassembled. I'm pretty sure I think how it is, but I would much prefer to know so I don't screw something up.

I have a relatively detailed manual for the engine. I found info on how to disassemble the gearbox. But nothing on the mating of the two (for my specific combo).

I did manage to get the bell housing to separate on one side, but the other side (around the sheared bolt) is holding fast, which is unusual. Usually when you get something like this to open a little, the rest separates easily. I don't know if the sheared bolt has fused itself to the aluminum bell housing, or if there is something on the drive shaft keeping it from moving, or both...

Damned hard to work in the cramp space of the engine area too. Give me a de-cowled airplane any day.

I had not realized that your bell housing was aluminium. The fact that you twisted off the bolt surely suggests that there is 'corrosion welding' between the BH and the bolt (assuming that the threaded portion is going into the cast iron engine block).

This being the case, if possible I'd try heating the BH in the region of the seized bolt. This has been my fall back means of freeing such seizures whenever heating was possible. Big propane torch or whatever you have available.
Once heated, the wedge method is likely your best means of applying force that will not distort the BH too much.

Good luck! (Hope that you don't really need luck)

Jim

[Obi Wan]

Yes, that's a good idea, though kind of scary in that enclosed space. Will definitely have a fire extinguisher handy. I will try that tomorrow if the wedge I stuck in there and the PB blaster I sprayed on the sheared bolt hasn't loosened it overnight.
The bell housing might not be aluminum. It just sounds like it when I tap on it. I should have tried to stick a magnet to it.

[topmast]

Obi wan. sorry if your aircraft experience was ruffled. You didn't say if box was still attached to drive plate Picture this ,spline seized, ,bell can be pried away from block because the springs in plate flex but only so much. If this is the case hope you can put in a block of wood and reach in the gap, with wrench turning the engine to get at usually six bolts in three locations to release plate from flywheel Thats why I like the rubber pocket drive plate. AS an old shop teacher I try not to exclude the the less experienced as many read this and may be able to apply to their own situation

[Obi Wan]

It's not about being ruffled. I was just trying to make the point that it's about knowing the specific procedures for this tranny, not help with the basics.

I can not see any way to remove the transmission without removing the bell housing. It appears it is bolted to the back of the bell housing from the inside - which is my point again - I wish I knew for sure.

I've only got the housing to separate about a 3/16" on one side.

[topmast]

Sounds like what I said. Can you slip a wrench in and grope about? I once had a situation where the solution was cutting a hole in the bell housing to access the plate bolts Many bell plates have this as stock. with a small bolt -on door to seal. On isuzue it's big enough to lever the ring gear with a bar. Mercury adapted the Ford tran/bell housing back in '51 so some's experience varies

[Sailmonkey]

Usually there are locating pins into the bell housing, they do get stuck and sometimes need persuAsion.

The gear is bolted to the bell housing from the inside, as far as the connection to the engine, it's just a spline shaft, but can get stuck over the years

[gjordan]

At this point I would think it would be wise to call a dealer that sells Hurth replacements. As far as the bell housing goes, you will probably have to drill out the sheared bolt at least to the depth of the engine flange. If it moves away on the side away from the sheared bolt, but not on the side with the sheared bolt, that would seem like a huge red flag. Maybe try the heat, but if that doesnt do it, drill it out. Talking to Universal about the bolt pattern for the damper and a Hurth rebuilder about the standard spline size should allow you to order a damper plate ahead of time, but unless you are in some very out of the way spot U.P.S. or Fedex should get you a new one in a couple of days. "Just another 2 cents worth of advice" ______Grant.

[topmast]

There may be enough bolt left to grab with visegrip so a bit early to drill. If you still have only a small gap and can't work wedges around the perimeter there must be considerable force on the likely suspect ,the plate hub. How about turning the engine on starter (fuel/compression off) The wobble may pull the spline out. If successfull, the gap will widen and you can unbolt the plate from flywheel