Twin Disk SP60 Sail Drive Clutch Problems

[skipperpete]

Thanks Sailbake for letting us know about your Saildrive woes and successes, your post raises a few questions, basically the implication is that the engine is the problem ( the torsional vibration is engine generated) and exacerbated by an inappropriate drive plate. You might have a point because every single failure I’ve encountered has been associated with a Kubota engine…. Although with a variety of drive plates ranging from very expensive Vulkan, cheap R&D and the agricultural spring loaded Borg Warner type that just about every yacht engine has used as standard for the last 70 years to transmit power from engine to reversing gear.
The puzzling thing for me though is that the only Saildrive ( and conventional gearbox) that regularly fails is the Technodrive range while ZF, Bukh and Yanmar ( I don’t touch volvo saildrives) don’t suffer from what you identify as torsional vibration damage. Yanmar SD50’s have cone problems occasionally , but often from poor adjustment and are easily repaired in situ, there’s even a kit mentioned on this forum that addresses all the problems, with parts that ensure a happier life for SD50’s. SD 20 and 25 saildrives are ultra reliable, seemingly the only way to kill em is with a high idle speed, rapid shift changes or bad adjustment and across those 3 brands of Saildrive, damper plate wear is average to above average (R&D excluded)
For some reason, Italian engineering is not always reliable, Lombardini, Bonfigliori, Technodrive, Volpi and Ruggerini are all producing questionable machinery that might be best kept at home in Italy.

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by JonnyDotNet

OK, Starting a new thread so as not to hijack.

We have 2 x Twin Disk/Technodrive SP60 sail drives mated to Beta 20's on our catamaran. The port drive has just started to slip when going into forward. reverse is fine. I've had various marine engineers look at it and most will not entertain a fix. The suggestion is that I get the unit pulled and fit a new one as it will be uneconomic to fix and any such fix will not be guaranteed to work! So I thought I would check with Twin Disk themselves and they concur. "The unit must be shipped back to us, stripped down and rebuilt".

Now this drive has done around 200 hours and is 2.5 years old. So basically Beta/Twin Disk are saying that the life expectancy of this drive is possibly < 3 years. Moreover, the clutch is not serviceable in-situ and the unit must be pulled and rebuilt.

It took me a while to process but this just seems ridiculous to me. If the serviceability / build quality of these drives is so bad then why would I fit another one?

Has anyone else had a similar experience? Have you successfully serviced your drive in-situ? Should I just buy a Volvo instead?

I'm confused!

I have a P60 coupled to an ISUZU 3 cyl 40hp driving my 40ft ketch.
Done about 1500 hrs over the last 7 years.. Motored for long distances across the NW Pacific.
No problem whatsoever.
I did however take the gearbox apart while in the boat, after about 500 hrs... To check the cone clutch wear... Found no wear, bearings are OK... All good. Cost nil and about two days figuring out how to lift the engine high enough to detach the g'box.
To dismantle and reassemble the unit allow about 4 hrs.. And 2 hrs if you know what you are doing.
A new cone clutch cost 350 Euros straight from Italy...there are 4 roller bearings.. 25each plus 2 oil seals..
The trick is not to overfill the box and don't slam it into gear... Give it a couple of seconds in neutral first.
To state that this boxes are only designed to motor out from your berth or mooring is nonsense

If s

I changed the ATF once a year and adjusted the control actuator once.
This boxes are really simple and easy to maintain.

[VASILIKI]

Originally Posted by sailbake

The problem with saildrives is the torsional vibration produced by a 3 cylinder diesel engine, exacerbated by the fact that the drive train changes direction twice after it leaves the crankshaft.
If you Google "torsional vibration" you will begin to understand the nature of the problem.

To dampen this torsional vibration you need the correct drive plate in the engine (not the one fitted by Beta) and the correct hub to the propeller (not the one designed for shaft drives).

I have discovered this through bitter experience since 2010 and advice and help from a friend who was an automatic gearbox engineer with AP systems.

This is the reason I have 2 ZF and 2 SP60 saildrives and 2 Brunton hubs sitting in my garage, previously mounted in my FP Fidji 39 with Brunton folding props (with the wrong hubs).

Having eventually understood the cause of the problem and how to resolve it, my latest SP 60s have been operating ok since I fitted them 6 years ago. In fact we have motored back from Vigo with them. Our 3 week holiday between the Scillies, France and Channel Islands last june was mostly motoring, due to lack of wind.

Beta Marine are aware of the issue, because I pestered the life out of them to provide replacement saildrives (which they did) and they helped me get the correct Brunton hubs and drive plates (even though they didn't seem to know much about torsional vibration).

I don't know why they changed from the original ZFs (whose established technology is used all over the world, in military vehicles in particular).

Now I understand the cause of the problem and how to fix it, I would (but for my advanced years now and the need to re-assess the correct drive plates for ZFs) go back to the ZFs whose saildrive gearbox uses wet clutch plates which are easily changed in situ in a day (they did mine 4 times I think - twice afloat), with all parts supplied in a bubble pack kit.

Yesterday I had a conversation with an engineer in the Multihull Centre in Millbrook, Cornwall, who said he was always repairing SP60s and seemed interested in my experience.
If Jonny will get back in contact with me I think I can help him with his current dilemma. I live near the Multihull Centre in SE Cornwall. I am not an engineer, just a persistent enthusiastic sailor who was a TQM advocate in my profession.

Happy to help fellow sailors.

wE HAVE A SOLE DIESEL MINI 60 HP WITH TWINDISC TMC 60A R2.00 AND IT IS THE SECOND TIME IN ONE YEAR IT DOES NOT WORK. THE MECHANIC SAYS THE CONE IS WORN BECAUSE THE GEARBOX GOT WATER AND THE OIL COULD NOT PROTECT THE CONE. I SEE THE CONE HAS NO TEAR. HOW CAN WE REPAIR IT? CAN WE PUT ANOTHER RAND GEARBOX?

[FPNC]

Originally Posted by VASILIKI

wE HAVE A SOLE DIESEL MINI 60 HP WITH TWINDISC TMC 60A R2.00 AND IT IS THE SECOND TIME IN ONE YEAR IT DOES NOT WORK. THE MECHANIC SAYS THE CONE IS WORN BECAUSE THE GEARBOX GOT WATER AND THE OIL COULD NOT PROTECT THE CONE. I SEE THE CONE HAS NO TEAR. HOW CAN WE REPAIR IT? CAN WE PUT ANOTHER RAND GEARBOX?

Making 53.9 hp @2700 RPM, your Sole Mini 60 exceeds the maximum Hp rating of the TMC60A. If you continue to use it, you will continue to have failures.

Short of submerging the transmission, I'm not sure how you would get water into the case of a TMC 60A.

[VASILIKI]

Originally Posted by FPNC

Making 53.9 hp @2700 RPM, your Sole Mini 60 exceeds the maximum Hp rating of the TMC60A. If you continue to use it, you will continue to have failures.

Short of submerging the transmission, I'm not sure how you would get water into the case of a TMC 60A.

THIS CAME WITH THE ENGINE WHEN WE BOUGHT IT. ALSO IT IS MENTIONED IN THE SITE. https://www.solediesel.com/en/mechan...-engine-fa0301 DO YOU THINK IT IS NOT SUITABLE?

[skipperpete]

Hi Vasiliki, and welcome to the forum. Since this is an SP 60 saildrive thread, you might have better responses to your question by either going on a TM60 thread or starting one of your own, you’re not the only disgruntled Technodrive user and the forum needs to hear about your gearbox problems…… and stop shouting! …..we already know that you’re upset after 2 gearbox failures.