Tough Question...I'm Replacing My Engine, An Older Yanmar...

[Searanger50]

Originally Posted by cpa

The list looks good. I agree with Target9000 on the mounts. Beta is very accommodating.

We have a fairly new Beta 38 (just under 3 years old) and since buying the boat have had a couple of niggling problems. The exhaust outlet pipe corroded and the oil drain pump failed (the handle fell off). When Beta were contacted about these the were nothing but great. They suggested replacing the exhaust with a high rise version as they suspected salt water was lying in the bend and they replaced the oil drain pump free of charge. I have found Beta Marine an excellent company with great customer service. The engine starts first time every time and runs without a problem. The only downside we have found is that the lift pump is a bit weak. It will not draw against a head of greater than 25 cm so on my boat that has a tall fuel tank I will need to add an electric lift pump or a day tank system.
Still a very helpful company and a great product.
Kevin.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Searanger50

The only downside we have found is that the lift pump is a bit weak. It will not draw against a head of greater than 25 cm so on my boat that has a tall fuel tank I will need to add an electric lift pump or a day tank system.
Still a very helpful company and a great product.
Kevin.

Kevin, that sounds a bit odd, and I wonder if either the pump is defective or there is a leak in the suction side. Our Kubota based Nanni (both engines use the Kubota lift pump) has no problem lifting from our keel tank and that is around 5 feet deep. You might ask the folks at Beta about that.

Cheers,

Jim

[tdoster]

Originally Posted by Searanger50

We have a fairly new Beta 38 (just under 3 years old) and since buying the boat have had a couple of niggling problems. The exhaust outlet pipe corroded and the oil drain pump failed (the handle fell off). When Beta were contacted about these the were nothing but great. They suggested replacing the exhaust with a high rise version as they suspected salt water was lying in the bend and they replaced the oil drain pump free of charge. I have found Beta Marine an excellent company with great customer service. The engine starts first time every time and runs without a problem. The only downside we have found is that the lift pump is a bit weak. It will not draw against a head of greater than 25 cm so on my boat that has a tall fuel tank I will need to add an electric lift pump or a day tank system.
Still a very helpful company and a great product.
Kevin.

Was the outlet their standard Stainless? If you have room, I would always advise going with the riser version. It is $250 well spent.

But even if you did have some backflow that water stayed in the elbow, I can't imagine it coroding it out in less than 3 years and be touted as better than cast iron?

Were you pretty sure that diagnoses was correct and water could have pooled that high? That would scare me a little and I would probably be doing a compression check to see if all 4 are the same. And even still, you can run seawater all day long through cast iron for thousands of hours before it corrodes through, but does not take long to take out a cylinder by steam cleaning it constantly. Did you have white smoke or steam coming from the exhaust at all?

[Cotemar]

Originally Posted by tdoster

Ask Volvo or Westerbeke what block their model is based off of and bets are they will not disclose that?

A simple Google search will show you who really makes the engine.
Most newer Volvo Penta's = Perkins engines

They all have a Perkins sticker with model number still on the front of the blocks.

[tdoster]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

A simple Google search will show you who really makes the engine.
Most newer Volvo Penta's = Perkins engines

They all have a Perkins sticker with model number still on the front of the blocks.

I think you missed my point. Call Volvo and ask for the engine block it is based upon so you can find cheaper parts. Do the same with Westerbeke. Google Westerbeke W46 and report back what engine that is based upon?

Beta will not only tell you, but provide you with the cross-part numbers. It not only allows you to find them if out of the country, but also keeps them honest with realistic part prices.

I expect a dealer to charge up to 100% more than Joe Autoparts, but not a 500-700% markup as that just becomes unethical price gouging, especially when you tell the customer it is the only part available.

Example, the gasket kit through Westerbeke (same kit as the ___________ on the tractor engine, but rebranded) - $749 for Westerbeke vs $127 for _________. What is the justification for that big of a price increase when buying the exact same part?

[Cotemar]

Originally Posted by tdoster

I think you missed my point. Call Volvo and ask for the engine block it is based upon so you can find cheaper parts. Do the same with Westerbeke.

I got your point load and clear, but I understand both side of the coin. Companies are in business to make money. If they do not make enough money they go out of business. Simple economics.

Ask Coke Cola what ingredients they use in their soda. It’s a billion dollar company selling sugar water.

Beta Marine sells their parts cheap and helps by giving you the cross-part numbers, which is all great, but the vast number of companies out there will not do that. Are they the bad guys? Not at all.

In the end, you do want viable profitable companies that will be around for a long time.

[tdoster]

I can't argue with the capitalist argument and I will agree with you that we all get up in the morning and work to make money and improve our bottom line.


Take the following boat builders. Catalina, Hunter, Pacific Seacraft, Hake Seaward, Valiant Yachts. And what are each doing/done differently?


What is the difference between a Ford Fiesta and Mercedes C Class?

[Searanger50]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Kevin, that sounds a bit odd, and I wonder if either the pump is defective or there is a leak in the suction side. Our Kubota based Nanni (both engines use the Kubota lift pump) has no problem lifting from our keel tank and that is around 5 feet deep. You might ask the folks at Beta about that.

Cheers,

Jim

This figure is written in their paperwork. I spoke to Beta Marine who suggest fitting an electric lift pump. I'm wondering if the problem could be solved by taking the feed out the side of the tank at the level of the lift pump with a dip tube to close to the bottom of the tank.

[Searanger50]

Originally Posted by tdoster

Was the outlet their standard Stainless? If you have room, I would always advise going with the riser version. It is $250 well spent.

But even if you did have some backflow that water stayed in the elbow, I can't imagine it coroding it out in less than 3 years and be touted as better than cast iron?

Were you pretty sure that diagnoses was correct and water could have pooled that high? That would scare me a little and I would probably be doing a compression check to see if all 4 are the same. And even still, you can run seawater all day long through cast iron for thousands of hours before it corrodes through, but does not take long to take out a cylinder by steam cleaning it constantly. Did you have white smoke or steam coming from the exhaust at all?

I think it was aluminium? or an alloy. It was returned to Beta who replaced it free of charge with a stainless hi rise type. The engine runs fine and I don't have any reason to suspect water found it's way back into the engine, just sat in the dip in the exhaust run. It was found on the survey when we bought the boat because the rubber exhaust pipe was worn.

[Rustic Charm]

Well, just to throw my two pence worth. I'm new at sailing. My first cruising boat. She has a 38 hp volvo 2003T model. Starts every time. But, she's leaking like a ceive and needs a good clean. Not been well looked after. My oil cooler I discovered yesterday will cost $1800. For a little oil cooler? Consumables are not expensive but it seems any thing that's cast and part of the block is ridiculously high. It's got a broken y plate that the throttle cAble goes on to. $390! So I'm using wire to hold it in place. She needs a new air cleaner assembly to, but don't now what that will cost yet.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

A simple Google search will show you who really makes the engine.
Most newer Volvo Penta's = Perkins engines

They all have a Perkins sticker with model number still on the front of the blocks.

Yeah, but the real question is : who made it for Perkins! (who then sold it to Volvo) My understanding is Perkins doesnt make anything anymore...

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by tedsherrin

Well, just to throw my two pence worth. I'm new at sailing. My first cruising boat. She has a 38 hp volvo 2003T model. Starts every time. But, she's leaking like a ceive and needs a good clean. Not been well looked after. My oil cooler I discovered yesterday will cost $1800. For a little oil cooler? Consumables are not expensive but it seems any thing that's cast and part of the block is ridiculously high. It's got a broken y plate that the throttle cAble goes on to. $390! So I'm using wire to hold it in place. She needs a new air cleaner assembly to, but don't now what that will cost yet.

Any aftermarket air cleaner that fits will work for a diesel. Most marine diesels just have a cover or screen. Take that Y plate off and have it welded.... etc... yeah, you gotta learn to work these problems for sure or they get real expensive.

[S/V Maggie Drum]

I just found this thread so you all my be long gone by now, but FWIW: We had a Ford-Lehman 4 cyl tractor motor. It was older but pretty bullet-proof. No longer have the boat and it is in Indonesia now headed west. But I worked at a major boatyard here for several years. There were always 5-6 motors in the bay being rebuilt and we put in 3-4 new engines, sometimes more, every month. I was an electrician and general tech so I am not a motor expert. But - we rebuilt a lot of Volvos. I do remember that the cost of parts seemed pretty astronomical compared to other brands. The one major weakness on the Volvos was an part made of aluminum that had water run through it, mostly salt water but also coolant. Eventually we found out that there were better coolants than the old style one and they dramatically decreased the number of failures from that. But - Volvos seem to have lots of corrosion problems still, and getting the special parts you need out of Sweden took forever. The yard started selling Betas, instead of Westerbekes, just as we were leaving to go offshore but all reports I heard were that customers were happy with the Betas, and the parts were cheaper. Ditto for Yanmars for customer satisfaction. Based on what I know now, I would lean towards getting a Beta if I needed a repower.

Regarding the bits that break all the time, it is the marinized parts that break more often - oil coolers, heat exchangers, elbows - but also alternators, fuel pumps, starters. What I did see in the shop and offshore is that major problems are not all that rare. Such things as gasket failures, oil seal failures, pistons & rings from water in the engines, injectors, and such. You really do have to consider them in the equation.

[Rustic Charm]

Thanks Maggie Drum,

I'm not familiar with the Beta but Yanmar are pretty popular over here (Australia). My messy oil leak turned out to be the oil cooler which as you described was so badly corroded away. I have no idea how it was maintaining pressure. But I've replaced that with an after market device for just $300. I'll stick with my volvo until I absolutely need a replacement. It seems to go well without any problems if I keep the maintenance up. But as you indicate,when problems occur it seems to be expensive.