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Old 14-11-2006, 03:21   #1
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Time to give the motors a kick in the guts.

I've had these Cummins B3-3 65hp diesels in the cat that i'm building for a year now.

The boat is not in the water and every month i've cranked them over manually for 1/2 a dozen turns and every 4 months hooked up a battery and with the fuel solenoid disconnected given them a quick crank to get oil pressure up.

Now after 12 months it's been suggested to fire 'em up until the temp starts to rise and shut 'em down.

There will be no water running through them at the time, but they do have water in the heat exchanger

My questions are as follows

1] does this sound right?

2] as I dont want to put Diesel in the tanks yet, can I just use a 10 litre plastic tank with a fuel line to motor and a return going back to the tank fill.

3] I would not do this with petrol, but with diesel will it be safe enough?

Obviously I will tighten up all engine mounts an run exhaust.

Please, I'm open to suggestions here from people that have Diesel experiance, not guys like me who have none, but want to have a go.

These cost to much to damage through dodgy advice.

Thanks guys, i'm sure someone here will rise to the challenge.

Dave
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Old 14-11-2006, 05:53   #2
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Why don't you remove the impellers and run a hose to the intake on the raw water pump and just run them normaly?
I think this would be good because you could get them up to temp easily and safely. I am concerned these will be run without load in their first few hours. Do you have access to WD-40 down there? If so, just turn them over with the starter as you have been and fog the intake. They might cough a few times but will not continue to run as the fuel (WD-40) will be exhausted quickly.
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Old 14-11-2006, 06:08   #3
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Thanks Pat, I actually took the impellers out and coated in vaseline and stored when I got 'em home.

Your hose trick was mentioned to me a while ago by another yachtie, but his mate said he did this while on the hard, and ended up getting water in the cylinders. Is this even possible.?

And yes mate we may be upside down, but we do have "wd40", but it looks more like "ohpm."

Is this meant to be like a fogging agent?

Dave
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Old 14-11-2006, 10:42   #4
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Pat, wouldn't a "fogging oil" be better than WD40 for engines that are going to be laid up?

And rather than running them in storage every month, surely Cat has some suggestions for pickling them and laying them up for longer terms??
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Old 14-11-2006, 10:58   #5
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Starting an engine without coolant isn't a big deal for the engine. Have done it numerous times intentionally and unintentionally. May not be good for the cooling pump impellors. The trick is not to run long enough to get the temperature up where cooling them is necessary. That in itself is a problem, however. The engine won't warm up and burn out/up harmful deposits/chemicals which are a normal part of combustion. You might do it once just to be sure that the engines are still functioning but I wouldn't do it on a regular basis. Probably better to use a fogging oil in the cylinders to prevent corrosion and let them set.

WD40 is a very poor lubricant and evaporates off of parts very quickly. It is a good cleaning agent and penetrant so works okay to free up parts, displace water or remove bumper stickers. It shouldn't be depended on where long term, serious lubrication is necessary.

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Old 14-11-2006, 11:46   #6
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WD-40 MSDS

You might want to look at this before spraying this stuff in a running motor. especially in an enclosed/un-vented area. The vapors are dangerous.

http://www.wd40.com/Brands/msds_aust.html

......................_/)
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Old 14-11-2006, 11:55   #7
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OK, first question is, Are you suggesting running these engines up JUST becuase they haven't been run in a long time??
If that is the reason, don't bother. As long as you do exactly what you have been doing, that is turning them over till oil pressure comes up, that is all you need to do. WD-40 sprayed into the air intake (remove air filter) is OK and a good choice of product. But any of those Moisture dispersants work OK. Just don't use silicon sprays. These sprays dont need to lubricate. Internally it will help to protect the rings from corroding to the bore walls. That is all. But Cranking the engine over getting the oil pressure up, does exactly the same, PLUS, the oil coating parts like Camshaft etc etc is essential and sprays won't get there.
DO NOT start the engine. If you start the engine, then you should go through the exersise of getting it up to temp and placing it under load and yadda yadda. It's best not to go there.
If I understand correctly, you have removed the rubber impellor. This is good as the rubber would wear very quickly, even just turning the engine over, with no watter in the pump.
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Old 14-11-2006, 17:24   #8
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Thanks everyone for getting back to me, I've taken it all on board and at this stage Wheels comments make sense, maybe through more explanation to a deisel newb like myself.

And the answer to you question Alan was yes. The motors were ran up on purchase with water running through them, and it was the engineeering shop's reckomendation to start after 12 months, but it never sounded quite right to me for the same reasons you stated.

So, it would seem i'll stick with what i'm doing, unless of course someone has some compelling evidence to change my mind.

Dave
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Old 14-11-2006, 17:31   #9
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I'm with wheels too. The same "less is more" applies to watermakers when you're in a temperate climate. In all the years I've owned them (3) I've never needed to use chemicals to pickle them, just product water.

If your engine gets lubed periodically why go further? It's unneccessary imho.
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Old 14-11-2006, 17:32   #10
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That's 19 years and 3 watermakers on 2 boats, just to clear things up.
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Old 14-11-2006, 18:39   #11
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Vaseline on impellers is a bad idea. Ever read a condom wraper? they say not to use petroleum jelly because it causes degredation of the base rubber.
WD-40 in this application is more of a top cylinder lube. The engine hasn't been started in along time and it won't hurt.
Running an engine on a hose CAN cause water to enter the cylinders. If you have a waterlock type exhaust. If so, start the engine, add water, bring to temp under load, stop water, stop engine. Remember the raw water circuit is ALWAYS open to the exhaust side of your engine. Hose water under pressure on a non running engine will fill the exhaust. It's the secondary job of the exhaust gasses to clear the waterlift exhaust of accumulated water.
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Old 14-11-2006, 18:49   #12
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Vaseline on rubber impellers is a bad idea? I thought that was the way to leave them in storage.
Somebody tell Nigel Calder.
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Old 14-11-2006, 19:25   #13
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Pat's correct. You are better to leave the impellor dry IMO. If it was an issue otherwise, then surely they would come prepacked in something. You never use petroleum based products on rubber. Impellors designed for oil contamination, ie, bilge use, are often a Nitrile material so as oil won't degrade them. That is why impellors for bilge pumps (the ones that use these of course) tend to be more expensive than a standard cooling pump impellor. (well they used to be)
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Old 14-11-2006, 19:29   #14
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From this paper
http://www.infectioncontroltoday.com..._4a1feat1.html

"One of the greatest challenges to glove integrity is degradation, which is considered to be deleterious effects that sharp edges, fatigue, extreme temperatures, ozone, chemicals, oil or other substances can have on gloves’ physical properties. The obvious signs of glove degradation include loss of elasticity, brittleness, softening, tackiness, cracking, and growth or creep of the length of the fingers.2"

This is from my old days in health care. I believe it.
So,
Cat Man, how about pulling out thoes old impellers? we'll see if they've changed in a year of Vaseline?
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Old 14-11-2006, 19:33   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler
Pat's correct.
It's taken me 6 years to find something to go toe to toe with Calder on.

Thanks Wheels
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