Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-02-2012, 20:33   #1
Senior Cruiser
 
unbusted67's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Islesboro, ME
Boat: Looking for a new boat
Posts: 2,196
Images: 24
Replacing a Damper Plate on My Transmission

I have a damper plate with worn out springs on my Hurth transmission it is coupled with my 40hp Universal. I am wondering how difficult it would be for me to replace this plate myself.

What are the steps I would need to take to remove the transmission? Could I hypothetically do it while I am still in the water? I worry about undoing the coupling and moving the shaft in an awkward way that might damage or tweek the stuffing box.

What does it take to reinstall a transmission? Do I need to realign it in any way with the flywheel or do I just bolt it right on?
__________________

__________________
unbusted67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2012, 20:50   #2
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Boat: Boatless Again
Posts: 4,330
Re: Replacing a damper plate on my transmission

I've taken the hurth trannie off my Perkins 4108 a few times--mostly to replace the rear oil seal. It wasn't hard and the transmission was surprisingly light--I think it was a 125 and weighed less than 40 pounds.

On the Bendytoy, there wasn't enough room to slide the shaft back and get the trannie out, so I took off the back two engine mount nuts, loosened the front, and pulled the back of the engine up so that the trannie would clear the coupler.

Removing and replacing the transmission was pretty much a matter of removing the controls, then unbolting it and sliding it off. Fitting it is the reverse, with no difficult alignment issues.
__________________

__________________
donradcliffe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2012, 20:53   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
unbusted67's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Islesboro, ME
Boat: Looking for a new boat
Posts: 2,196
Images: 24
Re: Replacing a damper plate on my transmission

Quote:
Originally Posted by donradcliffe View Post
I've taken the hurth trannie off my Perkins 4108 a few times--mostly to replace the rear oil seal. It wasn't hard and the transmission was surprisingly light--I think it was a 125 and weighed less than 40 pounds.

On the Bendytoy, there wasn't enough room to slide the shaft back and get the trannie out, so I took off the back two engine mount nuts, loosened the front, and pulled the back of the engine up so that the trannie would clear the coupler.

Removing and replacing the transmission was pretty much a matter of removing the controls, then unbolting it and sliding it off. Fitting it is the reverse, with no difficult alignment issues.
Instead of moving the shaft you moved the whole engine? You are a sick man sir!
__________________
unbusted67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2012, 23:02   #4
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Boat: Boatless Again
Posts: 4,330
Re: Replacing a damper plate on my transmission

Not when the propshaft will only slide back an inch until the coupling hits the packing gland.
__________________
donradcliffe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2012, 23:43   #5
Registered User
 
cwyckham's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Boat: Niagara 35
Posts: 1,870
Re: Replacing a damper plate on my transmission

My only issue is that I have a v drive, so the coupling has to come off to remove the transmission. I guess I need a gear puller for that?

When I had the shaft out, I took the transmission and damper plate off and replaced the damper plate. Ridiculously easy. Just a few bolts (assuming none are seized) and it's all dry and clean and easy. No alignment or anything (though may as well check your engine alignment once you're done. Gotta check it every once in a while anyways)
__________________
cwyckham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 04:05   #6
Registered User
 
Heikki's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Finland
Boat: Stormwind 40 cutter rigged steel ketch - "Columba Livia"
Posts: 90
Re: Replacing a damper plate on my transmission

I took out the damper of our Volvo MD-22L w/MS2 transmission (straight axle) in middle of the season last summer. As I had never done it before, I was a bit nervous to do it. On the end, it was not a hard job at all. I had to (1) disconnect the shaft from transmission and slide the shaft backwards, (2) open the bolts and remove the transmission, which was surprisingly light, (3) support the engine, as its mountings were attached to the rear part of the engine body which had to be taken off to access the plate, (4) remove the rear part of the engine body, and finally (5) remove the damper plate.

You can do it all in the water - just do not push the shaft all the way through! The shaft slides back and forth just nicely with little effort. If it has a flange coupling, just decouple the flange. That way the shaft cannot slide out unintentionally. Unless you drop something heavy on the shaft (like the transmission) or hit it hard, you should not be able to damage the stuffing box. Also pay attention not to break anything when you tighten the screws. On my Volvo, both the engine and transmission bodies are made of alloy cast. There is no need to use extreme forces. If you can, check out the manufacturer’s specs and tighten accordingly.

The only hard part was some screws and bolts that were very reluctant to open after sitting tight for 15 years. Some bolts were also very hard to access to begin with. I suggest you start the work a couple of days earlier that you planned by spraying the screws/bolts/nuts with a product made specifically to release them. Should you break a screw deep somewhere that is hard to access and you maybe even have no visual would be a major and unnecessary trouble to overcome.

On our case, the whole thing was an unnecessary exercise. The damper place was perfectly all right. It was actually the rear engine mounts that had given up. The shaft was thus aligned too low and was able to hit the stuffing box if the engine for some reason vibrated too much. To fix it, I bought new engine mounts and realigned the entire drive line. The original damper plate is still just fine after 4500 hours of usage.
__________________
Heikki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 04:19   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 205
Re: Replacing a damper plate on my transmission

I replaced the damper plate that fit from a perkins 4.108 and a velvetdrivre about 2 years ago. Because of the cramped space it was a fairly difficult job, but not impossible for a mechanically inclined sailor who wants to save about $2000 in charges. I wrote an article about the repair and it was published in God Old Boat, March 2011. If you would like a copy mailed, email your address and I send it on. Bob Tigar bjtigar1@netzero.net
__________________
roberttigar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 07:43   #8
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Replacing a damper plate on my transmission

How do you know the damper plate is bad? They last a very long time. Is there a rattling sound at idle? Very hard thump into gear? Like the poster above mentioned, check the mounts and also the coupler, flywheel bolts and stuff bolted to the engine first.

However, if you want to replace the damper plate just as routine, it is relatively inexpensive and easy to do if you have access to the transmission.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 08:05   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
unbusted67's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Islesboro, ME
Boat: Looking for a new boat
Posts: 2,196
Images: 24
Re: Replacing a damper plate on my transmission

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
How do you know the damper plate is bad? They last a very long time. Is there a rattling sound at idle? Very hard thump into gear? Like the poster above mentioned, check the mounts and also the coupler, flywheel bolts and stuff bolted to the engine first.

However, if you want to replace the damper plate just as routine, it is relatively inexpensive and easy to do if you have access to the transmission.

Mark
I have very good access to my engine and transmission. I am assuming it is the damper plate through process of elimination. I have a good diesel mechanic friend who went through the entire engine with me to source the sound we were hearing. It was a clack clack clack at low rpm when you put the engine in gear. We checked the alignment, replaced the cutlass bearing, and looked and listened all around the engine. Then we read the manual, ha ha. And it said, for one thing, "set the idle above 900 rpm lest your damper plate will go clacketty clack."

Well we raised the idle and it all but fixed it. Still below about 1300 rpm you can still hear it a bit. So my thought is that the PO had been running the engine at too low and idle and had prematurely warn down the plate. I am about to set off on a big trip and would like to fix it before it gets really broken.

Make sense?
__________________
unbusted67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 08:24   #10
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Replacing a damper plate on my transmission

Quote:
Originally Posted by unbusted67 View Post
I have very good access to my engine and transmission. I am assuming it is the damper plate through process of elimination. I have a good diesel mechanic friend who went through the entire engine with me to source the sound we were hearing. It was a clack clack clack at low rpm when you put the engine in gear. We checked the alignment, replaced the cutlass bearing, and looked and listened all around the engine. Then we read the manual, ha ha. And it said, for one thing, "set the idle above 900 rpm lest your damper plate will go clacketty clack."

Well we raised the idle and it all but fixed it. Still below about 1300 rpm you can still hear it a bit. So my thought is that the PO had been running the engine at too low and idle and had prematurely warn down the plate. I am about to set off on a big trip and would like to fix it before it gets really broken.

Make sense?
Yep, makes sense. There is nothing really to "wear down" on the damper plate, but the springs could be loose or the bushing or spline loose.

Since you have good access, replacing it is very easy. Depending on your particular transmission and engine combo, you will either unbolt the transmission or remove the bell housing with the transmission attached to it. The damper plate is bolted to the flywheel. Unbolt it, put the new one on, reconnect the transmission and you are finished.

You will need enough space between the transmission and the flywheel to get a wrench and your hands in there - so maybe 12"? Just disconnect the shaft coupling and support it with a piece of rope from above or a block of wood from below to keep it nominally in place. If you have enough room to move the shaft backwards, that will be helpful. If not, just work around it.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 08:29   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
unbusted67's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Islesboro, ME
Boat: Looking for a new boat
Posts: 2,196
Images: 24
Re: Replacing a damper plate on my transmission

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Yep, makes sense. There is nothing really to "wear down" on the damper plate, but the springs could be loose or the bushing or spline loose.

Since you have good access, replacing it is very easy. Depending on your particular transmission and engine combo, you will either unbolt the transmission or remove the bell housing with the transmission attached to it. The damper plate is bolted to the flywheel. Unbolt it, put the new one on, reconnect the transmission and you are finished.

You will need enough space between the transmission and the flywheel to get a wrench and your hands in there - so maybe 12"? Just disconnect the shaft coupling and support it with a piece of rope from above or a block of wood from below to keep it nominally in place. If you have enough room to move the shaft backwards, that will be helpful. If not, just work around it.

Mark
Nice thanks. Hey, is the damper plate/flywheel inside of the bell housing?
__________________
unbusted67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 09:02   #12
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Replacing a damper plate on my transmission

Quote:
Originally Posted by unbusted67 View Post
Nice thanks. Hey, is the damper plate/flywheel inside of the bell housing?
Yes. The flywheel and damper plate are actually part of the engine assembly and not the transmission assembly. Many of the small Hurth gearboxes bolt to a bell housing from the inside, so to remove them you must remove the bell housing. The bell housing is only a cover for the flywheel and doesn't have any real function in regards to the engine or transmission other than something to mount to.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 09:08   #13
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Replacing a damper plate on my transmission

Here is a picture I got off google of an engine with the transmission removed (this one doesn't have a bell housing). You can see the flywheel with the damper plate attached and the starter on the side.

Mark
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	107634150.jpg
Views:	1622
Size:	110.9 KB
ID:	36878  
__________________

__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
transmission

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hurth / ZF M15A Transmission Failures tomj Propellers & Drive Systems 138 06-05-2016 05:05
Lighting Protection - From Mast or From Butt Plate ? arjand Construction, Maintenance & Refit 34 28-02-2012 18:00
Yanmar 2QM20 Transmission Issue zoic100 Engines and Propulsion Systems 2 14-09-2011 10:04
Correct Transmission Sizing - What Is 'this?' [Pic] Oceandrifter Propellers & Drive Systems 9 06-09-2011 09:23
For Sale: Seafrost 12" x 12" x 3" Holding Plate dkall Classifieds Archive 0 24-08-2011 05:37



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:20.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.