PVC and DIESEL compatability

[cat man do]

Hi guys, I've been away for a few days.
Just wondering about the probs with copper pipe as I have seen it used before and have not heard of any problems, and the link to colepalmer I put in above gives copper and diesel compatabillity an excellent rating.

I'm confussed [ not hard ]

Dave

[GordMay]

Excerpted from: From Code of Federal Regulations - Title 46, Volume 7
http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2.../cfr_2005/octq

Sec. 182.455 Fuel piping

(a) Materials and workmanship. The materials and construction of fuel lines, including pipe, tube, and hose, must comply with the requirements of this paragraph.

(1) Fuel lines must be annealed tubing of copper, nickel-copper, or copper-nickel having a minimum wall thickness of 0.9 millimeters (0.035 inch) except that:

(i) Diesel fuel piping of other materials, such as seamless steel pipe or tubing, which provide equivalent safety may be used;

(ii) Diesel fuel piping of aluminum is acceptable on aluminum hull vessels provided it is a minimum of Schedule 80 wall thickness; and

(iii) when used, flexible hose must meet the requirements of Sec. 182.720(e) of this part.

See also: ABYC Section H-33 ~ Diesel Fuel Systems posted earlier in this thread.

[cat man do]

Thanks for that Gord, if i've read that correctly, copper it be, with flexible hose to engine end and tank end .

Dave

[markpj23]

Sorry guys - I could've sworn that this was a no-no based upon earlier discussions. Searched some old threads though and they too say copper is OK.

[Alan Wheeler]

The only time copper should be viewed with caution, is in the use of Propane. Copper can suffer from tiny pinholes after many years in a corrosive environment. There are "good copper" pipe and "bad copper" pipe. The really good grade pipe is less suseptable, but there is no easy way of knowing, bar going by any quality No.s if it comes with anything.

Internally Galvanised pipe should not be used with Diesel.

[GordMay]

Product Recall Notice: GEM Products Inc. Vented Fuel Fills
www.gemlux.com

GEM Products Inc. has determined that there is a possibility for failure with certain
vented fuel fills from the 99800(Gas), 99820(Gas), 99840(Diesel), 99860(Diesel) series.
Under extreme situations the plastic portion of the fuel fill may crack and/or fail completely. It is possible that the individual filling the vessel may not be aware of the failure. If unaware or un-observant while fueling, there is a possibility of fuel discharge into the bilge. If an ignition source was present, the fuel leak could result in a vessel fire although we are aware of no such incidents to date.
The material that GEM Products Inc. originally specified for the 99800(Gas),
99820(Gas), 99840(Diesel), 99860(Diesel) versions of the vented fuel fill series met and exceeded all ABYC standards for strength during extensive pre-launch testing, but GEM has decided to discontinue use of this material and switch to an improved and much stronger material.
GEM Products Inc. requests that all builders with stock in these fills stop using them and return them to GEM for free replacements. GEM requests that affected boat builders contact their customers regarding this notice so that arrangements can be made to have the fill replaced. GEM further requests that affected boat owners contact their boat manufacturer, dealer, or GEM Products Inc. directly for a free replacement.

Matthew Bridgewater
President
GEM Products Inc.
140 Industrial Loop Orange Park, Florida 32073
TEL: 904.264.0173 TOLL FREE: 888-GEMLUX.1 (888.436.5891) FAX: 904.269.5905 www.gemlux.com

[Nereus]

I'm not sure about diesel, But I built a fuel tank for a lawnmower out of PVC pipe five years ago. It still holds fuel and has not come apart at the seams yet. It's for a deck mower that pulls behind and off to the side of my riding mower. I store it outside but cover the motor with a plastic bin. the sun has discolored the tank a little but it's still working like the day I built it.

[Dustymc]

I once made a dipstick out of PVC pipe. A kid dropped it in, and we couldn't fish it out. A few months later I started getting it back. About 10 fuel filter changes later I think I had the whole thing back.

I'm still pretty good at starting fuel-starved Cats....

[Talbot]

This issue of PVC and diesel needs better understanding. I fitted a plastic fuel tank in my last boat for the diesel. This was made by a company that had been making them for years. Vetus also sell plastic fuel tanks.

Fibreglass also has its problems with diesel mixed with ethanol.

The trick is to use materials that are designed for the task.

[mobetah]

PVC is compatable with diesel fuel however, that's not to say it's a good idea to use it as a fuel line. Refer to the following site for a complete compatibility chart for PVC:

http://www.rutlandinc.com/industrial...lity.Chart.pdf

[Dustymc]

I said: A few months later

Then someone else pointed out that PVC is a fine with diesel, at least as long as it's not actually USED with diesel, or something like that, and linked a PDF which says:

Ratings of chemical behavior listed in this chart apply to a 48-hr exposure period;

So, PVC will certainly work for 48 hours. If that's all that's required, I'd like to be the first to recommend using large plastic trash bags for fuel tanks.

Interesting that the PDF scored Diesel and Oilsiesel Fuel differently.

I joined this site specifically to provide some first-hand and possibly unique experience to this particular question. I don't have a sailboat (yet), but I've learned a great deal from people on this forum and saw a minor chance to give back. Incidentally, I found this question linked from http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...rope-6344.html where the original poster apparently stormed off in a huff after someone suggested that not all ideas are good ones. I hope that won't become the trend on this site; it's a fabulous source of information, and I sincerely hope the members can find a way to keep it that way.

[santa margarita]

Hi Dave, I had a 58 foot salmon seiner. We used half inch copper tubing (the flexible kind) and had no trouble over the 22 years that we owned her. We did use double a rated rubber jumpers about a foot long to and returning from the engine.
On your filler pipes, are the tanks integral. If not there may be enough movement between tank and deck to cause a crack somewhere if there is no flexibility.
We had a gap of about one inch between the pipe coming from the deck and the pipe coming from the tank and that section had a 6 inch hose clapped to the pipes.


Mike

[Chief Engineer]

Doesn't PVC get brittle under cold temps?

My feelings are there is economical installations and cheap installations.....

I don't quite understand the building it into the furniture and handholds part.....

For someting as critical as fuel....I would not scrimp on the fittings

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by mobetah

PVC is compatable with diesel fuel however, that's not to say it's a good idea to use it as a fuel line. Refer to the following site for a complete compatibility chart for PVC:

http://www.rutlandinc.com/industrial...lity.Chart.pdf

Which says Diesel and PVC compatability is EXCELLENT

That means really good, right?

Dave

[cat man do]

[quote=Chief Engineer;191417]Doesn't PVC get brittle under cold temps?

My Cruising grounds melting/softening epoxy is more of an issue

My feelings are there is economical installations and cheap installations.....

Well lets all build Carbon and Titanium boats then, can't have cheap.
Weight was an issue in my decission, as was un-necesary over engineering

I don't quite understand the building it into the furniture and handholds part.....

see pic

For someting as critical as fuel....I would not scrimp on the fittings

Expensive does not = good



Dave